Seriously, you would think if you (doe owner) could provide paperwork stating your doe has tested negative for CAE/CL/Johnes and has her health certificate, it would not be a big deal.
We want to breed our does but do not want to purchase a buck. We are looking for quality bucks to improve the quality of our stock, but short of purchasing one, it doesn't seem like anyone is willing to allow a does over for a "romantic weekend"!
I'm getting very frustrated after about a dozen "we are a closed herd" responses. What is the secret password to get your doe bred? (We don't want any ol' backyard crap... we want quality to improve the breed as our does are quality.)
ARGH!! Anyone else run into this? How did you solve it (and please don't tell me you bought a buck)?
Replies
As a first time goat milker, as many of you know I bought the MaggiDan milker to help me get started. I used it for a few weeks as assisting and have not used it for months. So you know, FrauBurau, using a milker will *not* keep your milk sterile. You still need to start by hand and finish by hand. My experience with the MaggiDan milker (easier to clean up than many/any others) is that it is more trouble than it is worth. By the time I milk with it and clean it up, I've spent more time than if I didn't use it at all. You have to learn to properly milk anyway so it should just be a temporary crutch to help you get started. Quite frankly, for one or two does, it just would not be worth getting a milker. I have friends who have full-size goats and have a milker they love but they are milking a couple of gallons a day and even they will *not* use electric but rather hand-pump with a gauge so they reduce the risk of harming the goats' teats/udder.
In short, the milkers are not like our food processors in that they do not do it "better" but rather introduce another potential source of bacteria; they have to be used with as much or more care than just using our hands.
Just my two cents worth as one who has milked only four months and now feels comfortable with it and has no plans to use any type of milker again. It's here if I should need it in the event of injuring my hand, but I cannot anticipate me using it for any other reason. As always, your mileage may vary.
Well my 2c as an lifetime horse woman who got into goats after 20+ years with horses...I thought if there was nothing I couldn't do around a horse surely I could handle a 50# goat! they have given me a run for my money, big time! I guess I expected them to act like little horses and they surely do not. In the beginning it was incredibly trying for me, and now I love them so much I can't imagine ever not having them, but frankly I almost sold my little group a few times and threw up my hands.
For me, learning to hand milk was no easy thing either, and my best milker is a bear on the milk stand, 100% rodeo every time. That said, I'm a pretty awesome milk maid now and we love the milk and all out own dairy products. Totally worth it for me and my family in the long run but it is not just like adding a few "little horses" to your farm.
So, I guess my point is...know what you are getting into. In the end it has been totally worth it for me. I hope one day I can be like some of the long-timers on this forum and contribute quality animals to the world. I'm pretty proud of the little bit we've even done so far. But I learned it all the hard way :)
To chip in with an opinion on automatic milkers, you'll want to do a lot of research there. If you're only milking a few does then if you get an electric milking machine you'll end up spending more time cleaning and sanitizing than it would take to milk several does by hand. We're milking 23 does with a machine. Milking takes about 50 minutes. Clean-up & sanitizing takes about 20. The cleaning time would be the same no matter whether we milk 4 or 40 does.
You can get small pump or battery run milkers that would shorten up cleaning time a bit, but you have to be careful with those because some off them use constant suction which can damage the teat in the long-run.
Yes, I am the Barn Manager, hired to handle her retired TB horses. The goats "arrived" as an added perk to the operation for milk production (her family consumption) and companionship (horse).
At this point, we are looking at breeding at least one, maybe two does. The one does is known to throw quads regularly; the other would be a maiden/first freshening. Yes, I am the one milking them by hand although I may be able to convince her to purchase two automatic milkers so I can just put the girls in their stanchons and go from there. Everything stays sterile, the goats don't hate me, and everyone is happy.
I am a MAJOR beginner in this goat odessy. I am DEFINATELY sitting down for a conversation about this with her.
Juliana Goodwin said:
Frau,
I may have missed this in an earlier post- are you this woman's barn manager? You sound pretty stretched by this already and I think you guys (you and the boss, BO) need to be prepared for the work load you are talking about taking on. I had 3 does in milk this year that I milked by hand 2X a day and it is a huge commitment and work load. I'm sure there are folks on this forum milking a LOT more does than that each day- but because I am a relative beginner at this and I think you are too, milking several does a day is going to be a big deal.
Not to mention learning to handle to milk properly so it tastes good etc...
Might be worth a heart to heart with this woman before you guys you crazy trying to breed these does. Or maybe you should only breed 1 to start, I don't know.
Oh, how I wish I had *carte blanche* to do what needs to be done and quickly too. Yes, we have a lovely wooded area behind the barn which I would LOVE to create a goat barn and various attached runs, as well as some moveable ones so they could forage throughout the property safely. I would love to have the option of having a separate "breeding shed" where we could offer quality to outside does but still keep biosecurity levels safe. HOWEVER, she does like to get in the tiny details and if the production/install of my stall partition & doors are any indication, it would be two years before I had the set-up required.
God, I hope I have help on this! Already, since the goats arrived end of July, I have been working twice a day/every day without a break. Not gripping... just giving you guys an idea. And yes, she is a lovely woman but much along the lines of Suzanne Sugarbaker (but without the accent). Thanks for your help guys!
Oh, Rachel, I did *not* take it personally. I have posted enough on this group that I am quite certain you all know that I truly care about the quality of my future babies (and space allowing would be a serious breeder). You all agonized with me trying to think of ways I could get Cowboy and felt badly for me when I had to just give up on him. I suspect you all were also delighted to discover what great bucks I have access to. My concern would be if I saw another buck elsewhere that I really wanted and the breeder wouldn't even consider A.I. for my does because I don't have a "real herd." Honestly, that thought never crossed my mind until this discussion. Because I will likely have access to bucks as long as I don't bring in strange animals (and I have *no* intention of doing that!), it is unlikely to ever be a problem for me personally, but it also puts it into the back of my mind in case my breeder's situation ever changes. She, of course, has bucks for the same reason most of you do - availability and convenience - but purchased high quality bucks, again as you all do. I'm hoping she will have these two bucks long enough for me to finish my own plans for my girls since it will take another four to five years to know if Ginger's does will be as good as I believe. I'm also looking forward to Capri's next kidding when she has an owner who has a clue as to what to do - she and I will both be experienced at this milking thing.<g>
Rachel Whetzel said:
She certainly does. I don't know if you have any other help there, but that part would be a real concern to me because it could get to be a lot of work and really fast! It would be a reasonable assumption that any herd could even more than triple in a kidding season. What if there are problems and you wind up having to bottle fed a bunch of kids and milk or even take care of sick ones or does who have had c sections? Does the boss lady have any clue at the things that could actually go wrong. We all have visions and expectations of the best but realistically it doesn't always turn out that way. These things really require some serious thought. Apparently you have been doing some of that, but she should really do some too, if she is not going to give you carte blanche on the decisions. It sounds like you are going to be stuck doing a couple of jobs rolled into one big hard one!
Patty makes some VERY good points!!
I've been following this thread, and I truly feel for you in the situation you're in. Until Margaret's last comment :) I was going to say maybe the BO needs to read this thread so she can learn a few important things about goat ownership. Really, it's a huge learning curve, and I think she'd benefit from thinking more carefully about what she's trying to do. If you really have only that tiny bit of space to work with, I don't see how you're going to end up with 12 goats anyway. Breeding goats takes space. I started out with one pen and large stall for my does. When I bred them I realized I needed kidding stalls, so they could have a safe space to deliver and bond with their new kids. You really will have to think about how you could ever make that happen. Really think about what it will be like at kidding time with 4 does. When my three does kidded I went from 3 goats to 9 in two weeks. You don't sound ready for that in terms of space requirements. It really isn't feasible to have them all stay together and kid in one large space.
Like I said, when I started with my three does I had one pen connected to a large stall in the barn. Now, I have that same pen and stall, two more stalls for kidding (one now being used as a night time stall for two doelings who are with mom during the day), a portable pen for pasturing, and a buck pen and shelter. Things just grow, because it's necessary. If you try to do all this breeding with only the setup you have to work with now, I'm afraid you'll end up with struggles with coccidia in your kids, possible injuries to small and or weak kids, and possibly parasite overloads because of over crowding.
I know these weren't your choices, and you've been thrown into a huge learning curve on this whole thing. I hope for your sake that you are able to find a way to work things out in the best interest of everyone involved. And, if you're really going to be breeding and milking, I sure hope you really love goats. It is SO MUCH work to take care of everything you'll have to take care of, and being there to milk twice a day is a huge commitment. It' something you really have to WANT to do, or you'll be miserable. I hope for your sake that you fall in love with goats and have a rollicking good time! :)
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