Wren Farm Cupcake X Gerle Ranch Trevor, twin buck and doe. Born 4-25-12. Buckling 3# and doeling 2#.
Cupcake started out well with these two, talking to them and nursing them well several times after she had them. They seemed fine for the first three hours, and them I went to bed. I peeked through the window at them and saw them all sleeping together sometime during the night. That was the last time I ever saw Cupcake being really "motherly" to them. By morning she was sleeping on the other side of the barn and seemed to have no milk for them. They were pretty hungry all day, but Cupcake would nurse them occasionally. By bedtime, I'd bottle fed them a couple of ounces but left them with Cupcake. The next day went the same, with two bottle feedings of about 1 1/2 oz. and Cupcake nursing them, but they weren't at all satisfied and had pretty empty tummies. Now Cupcake seems to have milk and they are more energetic. No bottle feedings in the last 24 hrs. I think things are okay now, but Cupcake is still pretty distant toward them. She doesn't care if they cry and mostly ignores them, but goes to them and feeds them once in a while. Their tummies seem a bit more full, but they don't seem as energetic as I'd like to see. I'm keeping a close eye on things, but does anyone have any input on a situation like this?
I still have one doe left to kid, and unfortunately no colostrum since I had to feed it to the twins. Hoping I won't need any for these kids coming up.
Dispite the challenges involved, I am having a wonderful first experience with kidding. Each birth is such a fun surprise! :)
Replies
Thank you, Deborah. I did think too late that perhaps the babies were handled too much right away. We do have 4 children who all wanted to see them right away. I never thought of not letting them. However, our last doe kidded two days ago, and we've limited the amount of time we spend with them. I also asked the children to visit these new kids before any of the others so they wouldn't smell like other kids. So far, she's being a great mom. I'll know better next year! :)
Cupcake seems to be feeding her kids, just not when anyone is around. They're still alive and growing!
I have heard that Vicks works just as well. but to put the smell on the does nose and the base of the babies tail. that is where a doe licks to stimulate nursing and the other stuff. It also helps a mother bond if the kids have been handled too much she may feel that they do not smell like her anymore and reject them. (she needs to get used to this) I have one doe that if I touch her kids she refuses them. It has ben a long process and a lot of patients on my part but know I can handle her kids only after I ask permission first lol. But it does not seem uncommon...I have also seen where people place thier mommas in the milking stand and graft the kids to them.This usually happens if you have to remove the kids from them for some reason and then try to reintroduce them. Good luck..Preciouse babies.
Deb
LOL! Thanks for the advice to relax. I need that more than anything I'm sure. It's also nice to hear about your experience with the single verses twins.
I think that was a very good move to put them in the small pen. I would keep that up for a while. Sham is exceptional. I think he is as cute as anything I have ever seen. I just love his coloring. I remember once years ago I had a single buckling, and twin doelings, Big size difference. I think that big boy is getting lots of milk to himself and will probably get bigger faster and that it would be normal. Sounds like you hit on something with the small pen and have maybe hit a turning point. Just do what your doing for a while and watch close. RELAX
It will be a week tomorrow, and Cupcake's twins are doing okay. I don't have anything to compare them with except Shamrock, our first baby born here, but he's pretty exceptional so I'm not sure it's a good comparison.
The twins are growing much slower and not nearly as spunky as Sham. They seem to have energy and aren't loosing ground though. I'm still concerned because they often seem hungry, we never see them nursing even though we often see them trying to(mom just moves away from them), and they're eating a lot more hay and straw then Sham does. Their bellies are never as plump as Sham's. However, this A.M. I brought out a bottle (which they have taken well when they needed it) and neither of them was interested in it. Cupcake also didn't have a very full udder, so maybe she just isn't nursing them in front of us??
I did move Cupcake and the twins into my smallest kidding pen last night, so she'd be forced to be closer to her kids...
Thanks for telling me that Patty. I'll try to remember in case I need to know. Peppermint sounds, and smells much better than the campho. And I agree with you, I'm not sure I could do what Marin is doing but if you feel up to all that Marin then you have a ball while you still can. Cause you will get pretty tired sooner or later so just take care and don"t over do.
Thanks for this, Marin. I think you're amazing! I'm not sure I could do this with a small child and baby on the way!
Marin Waddell said:
Thank you, Margaret. I'll follow your advice. I've heard pepermint on the doe's nose, so I plan to try that if they've bonded with mom by then.
Margaret Langley said:
Patty,
If you do end up having to bottle feed this is one potential schedule to follow. Deborah has mentioned that it's good, although I'm not sure that it's what she does:
http://www.dillsalittlegoatfarm.com/generalcare.htm (scroll down a bit)
I am currently bottle/bucket feeding 30 kids and given everything else going on around here (I'm a stay-at-home mom of a 2-year old, currently 7 months pregnant with our second, and running a cheese-making business) there is no way I could keep up with that schedule so when I pull the kids from their mamas (at 3 days or older) they get fed 3x a day. It's been working for us, however, if you do have the ability to feed more frequently when they're younger then it is probably better for the kids.
Patty Meyer said:
Patty, I don't know if your last years kid had its head shaved or not but this could help. Sorry I don't remember where I read it but I know I did read that shaving off all that hair before disbudding has a big effect on the smell. So if you can make sure the haier is shaved real good it is suppose to keep them from having a real bad smell. I personally in a case like this might try putting something that smells good and familiar to her on them or putting something over her nose that will block her ability to smell them. However I don't know what the results would be I can explain what I mean like this. Many many years ago an old rabbit breeder taught me to put a dab of campho phenique right above the nose of the new momma rabbits so that is all they smell for a while til it wears off. They can not smell that you have handled their babies and will not cannibilize them. (In a rabbit, I don't think I would want them to see me touch them either. They are not stupid) I don't know if some similar trick would work with them or not, but it is a thought. Best to you!
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