Sorry for pestering you guys about this, I am going to send in a blood test for pregnancy with my CAE tests but I just have not had time to do it yet and this is driving me crazy.
4 months and change ago...the buck got himself tangled in the Premier electric net fence while I was doing a dog training appointment so I asked hubby to go and rescue him. (well actually I just heard screaming and asked hubby to go see if he was okay because he did not sound okay). Hubby rescued him from the fence but did not realize that he should not let him run with the does for a few minutes while he got things straightened out LOL.
Fast forward a few months and I am complaining to my husband: why is Ita so fat? I don't feed her at all! But her belly is huge! And hubby says "well...you remember when Miygagi had that fence accident...he did mount her for a second" Hubby apparently knocked him off of her (she was too young, she is only coming 11 months now) But he did not think it mattered or whatever and didn't tell me.
Here is the point of this nonsense. Would a young doe of that age ever have a growing udder if she weren't pregnant? I have never raised a doe up from birth before and I have no idea how their udders develop if they are not pregnant. She has the shape/size of like two small apples under there. And of course the baby bump.
Since I did not know a mounting took place I didn't make a note of exactly when this happened. I have tried to figure it out based on that dog training client and if I am right she may be due at the end of this month (or she's just fat from stealing alfalfa from the milkers)
If she is pregnant, how likely is she to have trouble either delivering or mothering at her age?
Replies
I didn't know an older doe would ever help with someone else's kids, that is so sweet! She has lived with Penny since she was 8 weeks old and she was present at Penny's recent kidding. It was when Annie came home less than a month ago that Ita started getting picked on a bit. Perhaps I should put Penny and Ita in the safer stall and leave Annie alone. Annie is too thin anyway so it could actually be a good opportunity to offer her some extra food without feeding the fatties lol.
I would just HATE to think of her being in labor and getting picked on that would just be awful...but I don't think she's quite ready to pop yet anyway. If I ever get around to it I will try to post some pics of her and that udder, see what you guys think.
Deborah - yes the doe is my main priority. I didn't plan on having these babies, we are quite fond of Ita like I said...sure don't want to lose them either obviously but she is more important. To my best observation her body condition is just great. she is shiny and sleek and you can't feel a bone anywhere. Her eyelid color has always been super, she is my heartiest doe. The purebred papered does are always pale and wimpy. I haven't given her any Vt E & Sel, suppose I should do that.
I have never weighed her...and unfortunately there is no budget for an ultrasound, so we're gonna just have to stay pretty much in the dark. I will weigh her if I can make time (so much else to do!!)
Thanks everyone
You definitely need advice from someone besides me about part of this but I would give points for a safer stall and not being with does that pick on her. A lot of people always separate them into kidding pens. But some people like for them to be with experienced does because there is always the possibility that if you miss the kidding and they do not clean babies or can't keep up if they are coming to fast that an experienced doe may step in and help. So you do have some variables that come into play that make it a tricky decision and it is good you are working on this in advance. Only you can ultimately decide just how much they pick on her etc. I am going to go out on a limb and say I just wonder about her being with one of these does. Perhaps the one she was with first etc. wonder what someones opinion of that is just brainstorming here. Any one have a viewpoint.
I wish I had a good answer for you on whether it's better for her to be alone or with the other does. It's a very tough call because I've seen both ends of the spectrum -- does that beat up a goat in labor OR help clean up kids that are born to another doe. You probably have a better idea than any of us because you see how they act together normally. I don't think pregnancy changes the herd dynamics much.
If only you knew how many kids she's carrying, you could make an informed decision on the grain feeding. If the doe is in good body condition, she probably doesn't need the grain, so those calories would go to the kids. And if the doe is your main priority and healthy kids are just a bonus in this particular situation, you could hold off on feeding grain. Have you weighed her yet? We just use our human scale and hold the goats and subtract our weight. The more she weighs, the less you have to worry about.
Also...she is stalled w/two five year old does overnight. She used to get along quite well with Penny but when Annie came home they both sort of ganged up on Ita and now she is clearly the underdog. I had built her a second browse feeder because it was too hard for her to get past them to eat.
The adjoining stall is available again since my new chicks just went back to the flock...I could put her by herself overnight. Should I do that? If she kidded unexpectedly she'd probably do better away from the other does, right? (they can still see each other- one wall is just fencing so she would not be afraid of being alone) That stall is also better reinforced against predators, and we sure have plenty of those. People lose kids like crazy around here.
Okay, well I am encouraged that other does kid at this age and do alright- this one is not even papered she is just a grade doe but she is very pretty and she is very sweet, most cooperative of all my does. I have been training her to the milkstand since she was a baby (she is my big experiment to see if I could train a good milker since my main milker is so cantakerous) We would all be really devastated if she didn't survive kidding.
I told my husband last night, if I can tell she's in labor some evening when we put them up I will probably stay down there overnight with her in case she needs my help getting them out or doesnt care for them when they're on the ground. Luckily I have 2 other does in milk right now so regardless of anything else I could bottle feed Ita's kids if I have to.
I'm also relieved that other people have accidental teen moms- I feel terrible that I let this happen to her!
Anyway...she does not get fed any grain at this time. I did feed her grain when we brought her home as an 8 wk weanling for awhile, but I stopped probably around five months. I still put her on the milk stand from time to time but I give her timothy hay pellets up there.
I had wondered if I ought to start feeding her...she eats pasture all day long and then I give them some branches to munch on in the stall overnight, plus the milkers get some alfalfa pellets at bedtime and Ita gets some timothy pellets to hold them over till morning. They are in the barn from about 8:30pm till 6:30 am. Ita is sleek and shiny and super healthy looking.
Would it be safer for her if I just didn't feed her grain? They also have the kelp healthy minerals and baking soda in their stall at night.
It really depends on her size, as well as how many kids are in there and how big they are. The reason that 40# is my magic number for breeding is because five years ago we took a goat to the vet at 3 a.m. on December 25 because she couldn't get the kid out. She was 18 months old but weighed only 35 pounds. She had a single huge buck kid, which the vet did manage to pull, although it required more force than I ever imagined possible, and surprisingly, the kid survived and was quite healthy. The doe was so traumatized though, she wanted absolutely nothing to do with the kid. If I ever found myself in a similar situation I would not be giving the doe more than a handful of grain a day for the last two weeks, which would mostly just be to acclimate her digestive system to it. A doe that age probably has a single unless she has a very strong history of multiples -- we just had a yearling give birth to quads last night! -- and single kids tend to be big because they're getting all the nutrients.
I'd guess she's pregnant too. And at 11 months old she'll likely be okay. We had an escape in the fall and had several doelings kid waaay too young this spring. Two of them (sisters) were only 9.5 months old. Both had singletons on the same day, one with no issues, and one that I pulled on a bit to speed up the delivery. The mama of the one that I had to help pull seemed at quite the loss for what to do at first, she mostly just seemed traumatized and had no idea that she needed to pay any attention to her kid. After half an hour or so she started to figure it out. I put her in with her sister & newborn nephew to see if that would help her calm down and she actually started licking her nephew first. I think she really was just too young. But, as I said, her sister did fine, and the other one who kidded quite young did fine too.
I agree with Rachel, from your description, that sounds like the udder of a mom to be. They don't just grow an udder like for instance young girls develop breast as they mature. They should not DEVELOP an udder unless they are going to be kidding. As far along as she would be, I don't think I would even worry with the pregnancy test. I'd put my money on babies too! Not really anything you can do other than be alert and prepare for the worst and PRAY for the best. Then relax and wait. Hope everything turns out great!
None of my doelings that are not pregnant have ANY sort of udder. Definitely not the size of apples. I'd put my money on babies! She's definitely young... but she may still do alright. That, is an area I can only speculate about.
Sorry buck is Miyagi not Miygag lol