I have a 5 year old pregnant doe (Ella) due in two weeks and two pregnant yearlings that are all loosing hair by the handful and Ella has giant flakes of skin on her udder. All have excessive dandruf and seem itchy. It looks like zinc deficiency and I know our well water is high in iron so maybe thats why. Ella, who is mostly black, has lots of red in her coat which looks like copper issues but no fishtail and the hair she's lost is mostly on her face and ears. I copper bolused a month ago when I noticed the red in her coat but it's gotten worse since then. I've seen some people recommending TrueCare minerals but those are not available anywhere I can find and ZinPro which is so incredibly expensive it seems like there has to be a better solution for just three does. Any suggestions? The vet doesn't know anything about goats so no help there.
I feed good grass hay free choice
purina goat minerals free choice which they are devouring
Ella gets a little grain and alfalfa pellets since she's nearly due
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Thanks for sending pics!
What state are you in? Some of this looks like typical blowing of winter coat, but I also see flat scruffy looking coat which can indicate copper deficiency. That paired with hair loss on Ella's face makes me suspicious.
You mentioned that you gave her a bolus a month ago. What did you use, how much did you give, and how much does she weigh?
When are the yearlings due?
I would also check the manufacture date on your minerals. They should be discarded 1 year from the date on the package.
Since Ella is so close to her due date, I would consider changing her hay to alfalfa to ramp up her calcium and protein.
Tammy
I'm in Idaho so they started ith just blowing their cashmere but then the normal, stiffer hairs started to go too and the have very thin and some bald patches, I just couldn't make it come through in the pictures. I gave Ella (who weighs like 65ish pounds) half of a santa cruise copper bouls because they are made for standard sizes goats.
The yearlings are both due first week of June.
The minerals are a brand new bag and have a long shelf life left according to the manufacture date.
I do have alfalfa pellets so I'll add those to her daily bit of grain.
It's difficult to tell in the pictures but on minty's shoulder the lighter spot showing through the black is completely bare skin and on Violet's back legs she is bald just above her hocks. I would expect their undercoat to blow this time of year but the outer coat is falling out as well and leaving bare patches which doesn't seem normal. Can the coat fall out that much just from normal shedding? They also used to be soft and now all of them feel rough.
Rough, dry, and flat (not shiny) can be from copper deficiency. It can also be caused by persistent (scour) worm loads because goats are being deprived of nutrition, but the one full side body shot that I see does not appear to be in poor body condition. It can be hard to tell from photos.
Have you checked them REALLY well for lice? You mentioned that they are itchy. External parasites can also have a very damaging impact on the coat and skin condition. Lice are extremely hard to see. I had a new goat that came to the farm a couple months ago. I was convinced she had lice due to coat condition and scratching, and it took me 3 days and multiple checks to finally see them.
If you are giving COWP for deficiency, the dose is 1Gm/22#. So if you gave her half of a 4Gm bolus, that may not have been enough to see a big difference. We have profound copper and zinc deficiency here on our farm as documented with serial serum lab tests and liver biopsies. I have some goats that need copper every 4 months and some that can go 9 months.
If you need to supplement Zinc for true deficiency, it needs to be given daily. Unfortunately TruCare is no longer on the market and the only available organic form of zinc that I am aware of is zinc bound to methionine, which is ZinPro. Due to the rumen activity of goats, you have to give them a form of zinc that can make it through the rumen without getting destroyed before getting to the small intestine where it is absorbed. The methionine (an amino acid) protects it.
I would start with checking for lice. Check really well in good sunlight.
Definately increase alfalfa for all. It's a good idea for them to be on at least 50% alfalfa for the last 2 months of pregnancy because the biggest chunk of fetal growth is happening during the last 6 weeks or so, including hardening of the bones, which requires lots of protein and calcium. Good nutrition also supports a much better immune system, and we know that our periparturient does experience a drop in immunity which makes them more susceptible to parasites.
I'm going to link some podcasts here for you on copper, zinc, and external parasites.
I have been picked through their hair with a strong flashlight several times to check for lice and I can't find a single one. I can do a float to check for worms but they don't have and other signs of them and their eyelids are nice and pink. I use an herbal wormer regularly with conventional wormers as a backup but I've never actually had to use them probably because they have a huge area to roam and it's super dry here. All of them have a healthy body condition, Minty leaning to the side of too much because she's my little piggy. Haha.
I should probably just give more copper because I didn't realize the dose was so high. There's so many things out there warning of toxicity that I was afraid to poison her and her babies. I know for sure our well water is high in iron but we are actually moving in a couple of months so I'm crossing my fingers that our new well is better.
I will definitely up the alfalfa pellets and see if I can find some alfalfa hay. I've held off on it because I know it has both copper and zinc antagonists in it and I was afraid to make the problem worse.
Thank you so much for your help. If more copper doesn't improve things I'll probably just wait and see if it gets better when we move as long as there's no major concern for their kids.
Since she is due in a couple of weeks, I would hold off on more copper now. Copper is stored in the liver and can be released during times of stress. I typically try to time my copper boluses so that they are due right after kidding, because the COWP is also good for internal parasite reduction.
The high calcium in alfalfa is only going to be an antagonist if the calcium is not be utilized by the animal, creating an excess. These girls are going to be using the heck out of what is in the alfalfa to grow their babies, and then to produce milk, so no worries about that :)
The worms that cause nutritional issues do not cause anemia, so they will not impact FAMACHA score. They will cause weight loss/poor body condition, rough hair coat, diarrhea/clumpy poop.
We had someone else contact us with massive hair loss in their goats a few weeks back. Their goats were already growing peach fuzz back in the balding areas when they sent photos.
Tammy
All of mine are in good condition, no clumpy poop or diarrhea. I listened to those podcasts and I think im more confused now. It really does seem like zinc issues based on the giant flakes of skin, especially on poor Ella's udder. Some are the diameter of a pea and super thick. The balding is happening mostly on the younger does back legs and today I noticed it was running along their spine as well. If I brush them it comes out in big clumps out of the same spot, rather than shedding evenly like id expect from blowing thier coat. I can grab a tuft of hair in one of those spots and pull the whole thing out leaving nothing behind with no effort. The volume of hair coming off of them is kind of freaking me out. Their coats are definitely rough and dull compared to normal. The one thing I was confused about in the podcast is he basically says suplementing can make it worse because too much can make them stop absorbing it. I don't want to do anything unhelpful but I'm afraid it will affect their babies so I don't want to just leave it either and hope it goes away.
So I was wondering if perhaps this could be a mite problem, but the skin actually looks VERY healthy- so Definately do not think this is mites.
If you run your hand opposite, against the growth direction of the hair, in the bald areas, do you see tiny new hairs growing in?
tammy
I circled the areas in question because pictures don't seem to show it very well. There is still some hair left in those patches but it's very coarse and curled. Ella's udder just has a bit of flaking right now because I have been rubbing it and scratching for her trying to get the flakes off. I picked a few off and took a picture so you could see what I mean.
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