This is our second kidding season (all 100% NDG)...so still learning. The newest does to our herd kidded here last year shortly after their arrival, so they had been through the trauma of travel and getting used to a new home. We lost several at birth, and more later...still not completely sure why. We are hoping this year will be better. So far, out of 7 of the does, we have had 18 kids, with only 2 stillbirths (the last 2 of quads from a doe that had lost some the year before; last had to be pulled...very traumatic). I have been recording all kid weights since birth this time, but need to know if due to the data and the behavior I'm seeing, if I should be supplementing with milk replacer/cow's milk/etc.
Kid Weights spreadsheet (shared Google Sheet)
The kids are 4-12 days old as of today. I see their moms' more often than not refusing to feed them. I have also noticed several of the kids grinding their teeth today, which I've heard is a sign of pain. Why would a kid so young be in pain? At some point with last year's kids, they were grinding their teeth a lot as well. The vet thought it was because they were getting ulcers from nibbling on their mom's grain. These kids are nibbling at grain pellets and hay, but it seems more like play and immitating the adults rather than truly eating it. Also, from what I've read, that's normal for young kids to nibble like that.
Their poop has seemed normal, developing from dark, tarry stools at birth, to fluffy, sticky, yellow baby poops. I haven't seen evidence of diarrhea. The kids are all very playful and run and jump to their heart's content. But, they also chase after the does (thier mom or anyone's) trying to get milk. They suckle on our pant legs and boot straps, and seem to be looking for a meal most times when we hold them. Maybe most of the behaviors mentioned are totally normal, but the teeth grinding worries me.
I went ahead tonight and tried them on some warmed whole cow's milk from a slow-flow dollar store bottle. Only two of them would latch on (Autumn and Milkyway). One of these had definitely been teeth grinding earlier today. Both have been gaining some weight daily. The rest weren't really interested and just wanted their moms.
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Here are a couple of videos that you might find helpful:
https://www.youtube.com/live/kSG87t-Zw50?si=NfQRAzKoWYcYxQZu
https://www.youtube.com/live/dlT0Je64_Ww?si=Ccp6ivxTDjas97Sy
Does in milk can eat as much alfalfa as they want, whether it is hay or pellets, although long-stem hay is better because it keeps the rumen working properly as the goats have to chew a lot to eat hay. If your goats are choking on the pellets, it's likely because they are in a hurry and not chewing. They need 1# of goat feed for every 3# of milk they are producing. Don't add oats because that is low protein and just dilutes the goat feed. You have found a great goat feed, so don't replace any of it with something low protein like plain oats. Starting with 1# of feed at kidding is usually a good start, then you increase the feed as the milk consumption of the kids increases. Grass hay is also very low protein and takes up space in the rumen that should be filled with a high protein, high calcium hay like alfalfa.
You had quite a few kids die last year. The most common cause of death is parasites, and if they weren't gaining weight well, it was likely coccidiosis if it was after 3 weeks of age. If it was less than 3 weeks, it could have been starvation.
What goat mineral do you have available?
Thanks! That really gives me a great starting point for the does with the alfalfa and feed. I had been giving oats hoping to help increase milk production. It seemed to help me with my children...but, I'm not a goat and I hadn't considered it diluting the the nutrition they get from the feed pellets. It sounds like I need to get me some 3-string alfalfa instead of just 3-string coastal ;)
Between you and Tammy, the mysteries of last year's losses are getting solved. I only hope I can keep up with their needs and head off those same kind of disasters this year.
Sorry, forgot to add that I use Purina loose goat minerals. Its really humid here often, and we just recently finished the barn enough to get the moms in there, so it can be a real challenge to keep minerals out for them before they get rain dripping on them, or get gross from the humiditiy. To make matters worse, I'm pretty sure we have a secondary copper deficiency due at least to high calcium in our well water. We haven't had it tested yet for things like that, but we get lots of white mineral build up that is rough on our appliances. I have recently given them copper boluses.
Purina is a good mineral so you shouldn't have any problems if you're using it. It also has a very high level of copper. I'd suggest only putting out a cup at a time -- or whatever they can finish in a few days. You don't want it to get wet because the selenium will leach out. Also, don't buy more than one bag at a time. They do get old.
If calcium is the only mineral in your water, that won't cause copper deficiency. If your water is stinky (sulfur) or turns your sinks orange (iron), those two things can cause a much bigger problem, especially the sulfur.
The does definitely eat the loose minerals when they are fresh, and the bucklings are going crazy for them right now. The bucks and the wethers, however, seem to rarely touch them. My black goats had started getting "rusty" on their legs, my brown goats were turning red-brown, that fur was also feeling stiff and rough, their tail fur was getting thin and fish tail-like, and they were all loosing hair on the bridge of their noses (may or may not be related). When this started happening last year, I searched and found your articles on copper deficiency. After feeding them each boluses (mixed with tiny amounts of feed pellets at a time, as the banana and Fig Newton tricks I also read about didn't work well for them), over time their fur returned to normal.
The water is frequently stinky, but not all the time. There can be a bit of orange as well, but nearly as much as I've seen at other properties.
When was the last time you gave them copper oxide?
Sounds like they are up to date on the copper and you shouldn't need to give more for a few months.
They had COWPs on 2/17/24.
Hi Rebecca!
I saw below that Deborah has asked if you notice the teeth grinding associated with anything.
We dam raise as well, and this year I have been tracking kid behavior from a development stand point. I have observed that the kids who are less socialized tend to grind their teeth in response to the stress of being picked up by a human. And, I see it very commonly when picked up in pretty much all of the kids between the ages of about 1 & 3 weeks of age. As they progress socially with human interaction, it seems to fade away.
~Tammy
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