Posted by Rebekah on May 18, 2014 at 12:56am in Health
Hi All,
We got our mixed herd home over the past few weeks - 2 mini nubian does and 2 Nigerian Dwarf does - and we are loving them! I already have a goat health concern, though... My black mini nubian doe is redding out in her coat a lot and they are starting to show signs of fishtails (balding on the tail tips). I know this means I need to copper bolus, so I will be ordering some asap.
My question is about what role our well water quality might play in this. We have very hard/ high mineral content well water... It is extremely high in iron, calcium, and manganese. I know high levels of iron can affect copper absorption but I'm wondering two things:
1. Will high mineral content in the water make them avoid their loose minerals (they really aren't even touching them) since they are getting high loads of particular minerals in their water source?
2. Would the softened water be better for them to drink than the straight well water? We have a water softener for our home to save our fixtures (and even that doesn't remove all the mineral residue!), but we don't drink it - we have a low output reverse osmosis filter for our own drinking water - or water our garden with it. I know the salts from the softener can kill plants, so I assumed it wasn't good for livestock to drink either... We have been filling the goats' water buckets with the same water we use in our garden and orchard - it has been ozone treated, but not softened. I give my dogs the reverse osmosis water most of the time, and they also have acces to a large tub of the well water, but the RO system doesn't put out nearly enough water to fill the buckets for our goats.
Thought or advice would be greatly appreciated!
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Be really careful "spoiling" your preggo girls!! If you have good quality hay and browse, the extra nutrition can end up going to their unborn kids. Large kids can cause birthing complications. I learned that the hard way, and I didn't feed any extra until the last two weeks of pregnancy! Still ended up with really big kids.
Yup, the scant 1/4 tsp is for the Nigerians. We do a heaping 1/4 tsp for our full-size LaManchas. It might not be as accurate, but our LaManchas don't seem to have as much problem with copper deficiency as our Nigerians.
If you're going to measure it with a 1/4 tsp I'd recommend making sure you find it to be the right dosage as well. It's a pretty unscientific method:-)
I like the idea of emptying the capsules into grain rations... The bolus gun seems strange to me, but I'm sure I would get the hang of it (doesn't sound much different than a drenching syringe). The scant 1/4 tsp is for the Nigerians, I assume? My mini nubians need a copper boost as well, so I will need to figure out a weight estimate on them.
And, wow! 75 goats must keep you pretty busy... I'm impressed! :)
Our does are on a diet of lots of alfalfa as well as browse during most of the day at the moment, so it is probably a good fit for them... My husband has been spoiling them rotten with extra flakes of organic alfalfa! I know I will have to watch that they don't get too fat with all that alfalfa on top of the acorns they are scavenging for in their big pasture.
We have 3 does in milk and 2 pregnant ... But one of the pregnant girls (mini nubian) will be going up to my friend's house to live with her full size nubians. I hate to see her go as she is gorgeous and sweet as can be, plus her babies are going to be ADORABLE... But my friend fell in love with this doe, and she has been a HUGE help to us in this project with moral support and even helping with milk stand training, so it's the least I could do.
Did a search in the forums, and found this from Deborah a few years ago: " ...Sweetlix Magnum Milk, which has less calcium and is made for does on an alfalfa diet."
Are you goats in milk? I don't personally have experience with the sweetlix magnum milk minerals, but Deborah has mentioned that she doesn't use them anymore. I *think* it had to do with the protein/calcium ratio, but I can't remember for sure. I used sweetlix meat maker until I found out a local grainery had a nearly identical mix, with just a *bit* higher copper content.
Hi Rebekah,
Yes, COWP, copper oxide wire particulate is the same thing as copper bolus. We have 75+ goats so I buy the big cattle sized ones and empty them. I've figured out that an appropriate dose is a scant 1/4 tsp so I scoop it onto their grain ration rather than actually bolusing them. Cheaper than a goat-sized bolus, and easier than repackaging it in smaller capsules.
I'm not able to get a dairy goat mineral locally so the one I use is a cattle mineral. I know there's been lots of other discussions on here about different loose minerals though.
Thanks Marin, we are using sweetlix loose caprine magnum milk mineral, which I believe is pretty high in copper and selenium. Rainwater collection would be fantastic, except we live in Northern California so rain is pretty much non-existent in the summer months. Perhaps we need to upgrade to a higher output RO system, but then there will be zero minerals in their water and I'm not convinced that's good for them either. It's kind of daunting to be learning about the needs of a new-to-me species... Dog health I know pretty much inside and out, cats I'm certainly proficient with, horses I knew really well once upon a time, but goats are totally new to me. We are using herbal wormers and have had some clumpy eliminations, but I suspect that the underlying issues are the stress of transport and mineral deficiency that have taxed their systems. I just want to nip it in the bud before we have any major issues on our hands! I'm thinking maybe I should get the large animal vet out for a visit on Tuesday when she is in our area of the county (yes, we are that rural... There is a local joke that says "if you live in Anderson Valley make sure your horse only gets sick on Tuesday!")
We're in the same situation as you with our well water: softener + iron/manganese filter for household use + RO for drinking. (Actually right now our well is doing it's best to go dry so we've had to stop using filters and buy our drinking water, but that's beside the point). We give the goats water straight from the well as I believe the softened water would not be good for them, but I don't know if I read that, or just decided it. It does not seem to affect their desire to eat loose minerals.
We have had big problems with copper deficiency, and possibly selenium deficiency. We had many weak or stillborn kids for a couple of seasons, but now that we've started dosing with COWP every three months and offering a high copper/high selenium loose mineral things were much, much better this year. I believe we may have high molybdenum in our water too which can also cause copper deficiency.
If we had fewer goats I'd probably try to collect rainwater and use it as much as possible, but it's not practical for us.
Replies
Be really careful "spoiling" your preggo girls!! If you have good quality hay and browse, the extra nutrition can end up going to their unborn kids. Large kids can cause birthing complications. I learned that the hard way, and I didn't feed any extra until the last two weeks of pregnancy! Still ended up with really big kids.
If you're going to measure it with a 1/4 tsp I'd recommend making sure you find it to be the right dosage as well. It's a pretty unscientific method:-)
I like the idea of emptying the capsules into grain rations... The bolus gun seems strange to me, but I'm sure I would get the hang of it (doesn't sound much different than a drenching syringe). The scant 1/4 tsp is for the Nigerians, I assume? My mini nubians need a copper boost as well, so I will need to figure out a weight estimate on them.
And, wow! 75 goats must keep you pretty busy... I'm impressed! :)
Our does are on a diet of lots of alfalfa as well as browse during most of the day at the moment, so it is probably a good fit for them... My husband has been spoiling them rotten with extra flakes of organic alfalfa! I know I will have to watch that they don't get too fat with all that alfalfa on top of the acorns they are scavenging for in their big pasture.
We have 3 does in milk and 2 pregnant ... But one of the pregnant girls (mini nubian) will be going up to my friend's house to live with her full size nubians. I hate to see her go as she is gorgeous and sweet as can be, plus her babies are going to be ADORABLE... But my friend fell in love with this doe, and she has been a HUGE help to us in this project with moral support and even helping with milk stand training, so it's the least I could do.
Did a search in the forums, and found this from Deborah a few years ago: " ...Sweetlix Magnum Milk, which has less calcium and is made for does on an alfalfa diet."
Here's a link to the comment she made: http://nigeriandwarfgoats.ning.com/forum/topics/free-choice-alfalfa...
Are you goats in milk? I don't personally have experience with the sweetlix magnum milk minerals, but Deborah has mentioned that she doesn't use them anymore. I *think* it had to do with the protein/calcium ratio, but I can't remember for sure. I used sweetlix meat maker until I found out a local grainery had a nearly identical mix, with just a *bit* higher copper content.
Yes, COWP, copper oxide wire particulate is the same thing as copper bolus. We have 75+ goats so I buy the big cattle sized ones and empty them. I've figured out that an appropriate dose is a scant 1/4 tsp so I scoop it onto their grain ration rather than actually bolusing them. Cheaper than a goat-sized bolus, and easier than repackaging it in smaller capsules.
I'm not able to get a dairy goat mineral locally so the one I use is a cattle mineral. I know there's been lots of other discussions on here about different loose minerals though.
Is COWP the same as copper bolus?
We have had big problems with copper deficiency, and possibly selenium deficiency. We had many weak or stillborn kids for a couple of seasons, but now that we've started dosing with COWP every three months and offering a high copper/high selenium loose mineral things were much, much better this year. I believe we may have high molybdenum in our water too which can also cause copper deficiency.
If we had fewer goats I'd probably try to collect rainwater and use it as much as possible, but it's not practical for us.