I have a FF doe due on 4/10. I just noticed has some clumpy fecal material in the pen (a lot of it) and she was hiding in the igloo in the barn. She is not normally in there. She has some stuck to her rear end also. She did not want any grain either. She did drink some water when I was out there. Her eye lids are pink but not red. I am very new to this and not sure what to do. She did get ivermectin plus on 2/17/13 orally. It has been kinda warm for Michigan the last few days and very muddy. What do I do? Thanks for any help. Se is not sick, sick but definitely not herself. I have noticed they both haven't been eating much hay lately but it is the same hay we have used all winter.
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Thanks, Rachel -- "got into extra grain yesterday" totally slipped past me! That's what I get for reading too fast! Some goats wind up with diarrhea after getting into the grain, so clumpy poop isn't surprising at all.
As far as dewormer resistance -- yes, you can get dewormer resistance deworming that much. Four times in one year is far too often. Every three months was the schedule that caused the widespread resistance issues that we now have. If you use dewormers that often, it won't take very long for "nothing" to work, and then you'll just have to watch your goats die as there will be nothing that can be done for them. If your goats NEED a dewormer more than once a year, then there are management practices that need to be changed, or you have some very weak genetics that need to be culled. There are only three classes of dewormers out there, so you have to be very careful to only use what you NEED.
Fairfax is in great condition now. I went to check on him after you left, and he was walking around eating hay. Five years ago, goats in his condition would have died because we did have widespread dewormer resistance here, so nothing would have worked to save him. But by NEVER using dewormers except on goats that actually need them, we have bred back internal parasites that are susceptible to dewormers, so they work when we need them to work now. The only reason Fairfax was so weak was because he was dehydrated and his blood sugar was low, although he probably should have been treated with a dewormer a couple weeks earlier.
Because bucks are so hairy and we don't handle them much, it is easier for them to surprise us with a heavy parasite load. I run my hand down the spine of my does every day on the milk stand, so I keep much better track of their parasite load by doing that. I try to get my hands on the bucks at least every couple weeks, but sometimes that isn't often enough, especially when there is a big spring thaw, which brings the eggs/larvae out of dormancy on the pasture. The rest of the bucks were fine, so I didn't give a dewormer to any of the others. I did, however, bring them all into the barn so that they are not continually exposed to the eggs hatching on the pasture as we progress through the spring warm up. I'm thinking that the next thing I'd like to do in improving my management of the boys is to build a buck house for them to spend the spring in so that they won't be subjected to the extra heavy load of parasites on pasture during the spring thaw. This is what I mean about changing management to control parasites.
Thanks for all the help ladies. Rachel I think it may be grains also and I KNOW to introduce new stuff slowly but did I do it. NO I don't know what I was thinking. I have only had them since this fall and am learning as I go. Deb I gave her some more ivermectin plus mixed with some baking soda this morning, she was looking ok, not any worse. She did urinate when I was out there so I think that's a good sign. They are one year old and have had ivermectin 4 times since birth, can they develop a resistance that fast? I am the one that was at your cheese/goat class in feb. Hello! It freaked me out to see your buck so sick, hope he is fine, I came home and wormed both mine. That's the first time I have given it to them, but they have it every 4 months at the other farm. For a total of 4 times. Any concerns with ivermectin plus that close to delivery? They are due in one month?
If she got into grain yesterday, I'd say she's clumpy because of that! She might also have an imbalance in her rumen now because of it, so you might give her some baking soda to help with that. If she's not eating what you have out for her, you might try dosing her with a watered down mix using a syringe with no needle in it. If you combine the possible worm load with too much grain, you'd be sure to get loose stool.
Worm resistance to ivermectin is pretty high, meaning that it might have done no good when you gave it to her. It sounds like worms, especially if you've had a recent warm up in your area. The worms/larvae come out or dormancy when you get those warm ups, especially if it's wet. Light pink (4) on the FAMACHA chart means she definitely needs deworming. If you have resistance to ivermectin, you could try Cydectin (moxidectin) at 2X the sheep or cattle dosage. You use the injectable but give it orally. If you inject it, it has a 3-4 months milk withdrawal time. I've heard quite a few Michigan people say that Safeguard doesn't work up there, but if you have Valbazen, you might try that.
Glad she has baking soda in case she needs it for this, and the grain could be the cause of both her stools and her not feeling well, but I suspect there could something else going on too. I just really don't know enough to tell you more about that! Sorry!
Ok on the famancha chart she is between a 3 and 4. We are just using the iPad in the barn to judge but that's my best guess. We compared both goats and they look the same. We did switch grains about a week ago to a mixture of rolled oats, barley,shredded beet pulp,black sunflower seeds, and manna. My boys just told me they got into extra grain yesterday. She just seems to stand in one spot in barn. we do have free choice baking soda but she doesn't seem interested.
Have you recently started her on grains or upped her grains? Do you know the colors on the Famancha chart well enough to give us a number of where you think she would be on the chart. If not, look it up online and look at a couple of the charts, then tell us what you think!
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Thanks, Rachel -- "got into extra grain yesterday" totally slipped past me! That's what I get for reading too fast! Some goats wind up with diarrhea after getting into the grain, so clumpy poop isn't surprising at all.
As far as dewormer resistance -- yes, you can get dewormer resistance deworming that much. Four times in one year is far too often. Every three months was the schedule that caused the widespread resistance issues that we now have. If you use dewormers that often, it won't take very long for "nothing" to work, and then you'll just have to watch your goats die as there will be nothing that can be done for them. If your goats NEED a dewormer more than once a year, then there are management practices that need to be changed, or you have some very weak genetics that need to be culled. There are only three classes of dewormers out there, so you have to be very careful to only use what you NEED.
Fairfax is in great condition now. I went to check on him after you left, and he was walking around eating hay. Five years ago, goats in his condition would have died because we did have widespread dewormer resistance here, so nothing would have worked to save him. But by NEVER using dewormers except on goats that actually need them, we have bred back internal parasites that are susceptible to dewormers, so they work when we need them to work now. The only reason Fairfax was so weak was because he was dehydrated and his blood sugar was low, although he probably should have been treated with a dewormer a couple weeks earlier.
Because bucks are so hairy and we don't handle them much, it is easier for them to surprise us with a heavy parasite load. I run my hand down the spine of my does every day on the milk stand, so I keep much better track of their parasite load by doing that. I try to get my hands on the bucks at least every couple weeks, but sometimes that isn't often enough, especially when there is a big spring thaw, which brings the eggs/larvae out of dormancy on the pasture. The rest of the bucks were fine, so I didn't give a dewormer to any of the others. I did, however, bring them all into the barn so that they are not continually exposed to the eggs hatching on the pasture as we progress through the spring warm up. I'm thinking that the next thing I'd like to do in improving my management of the boys is to build a buck house for them to spend the spring in so that they won't be subjected to the extra heavy load of parasites on pasture during the spring thaw. This is what I mean about changing management to control parasites.
Don't be too hard on yourself! It sounds like you did things right! Keep us posted!
If she got into grain yesterday, I'd say she's clumpy because of that! She might also have an imbalance in her rumen now because of it, so you might give her some baking soda to help with that. If she's not eating what you have out for her, you might try dosing her with a watered down mix using a syringe with no needle in it. If you combine the possible worm load with too much grain, you'd be sure to get loose stool.
Worm resistance to ivermectin is pretty high, meaning that it might have done no good when you gave it to her. It sounds like worms, especially if you've had a recent warm up in your area. The worms/larvae come out or dormancy when you get those warm ups, especially if it's wet. Light pink (4) on the FAMACHA chart means she definitely needs deworming. If you have resistance to ivermectin, you could try Cydectin (moxidectin) at 2X the sheep or cattle dosage. You use the injectable but give it orally. If you inject it, it has a 3-4 months milk withdrawal time. I've heard quite a few Michigan people say that Safeguard doesn't work up there, but if you have Valbazen, you might try that.
Glad she has baking soda in case she needs it for this, and the grain could be the cause of both her stools and her not feeling well, but I suspect there could something else going on too. I just really don't know enough to tell you more about that! Sorry!
Have you recently started her on grains or upped her grains? Do you know the colors on the Famancha chart well enough to give us a number of where you think she would be on the chart. If not, look it up online and look at a couple of the charts, then tell us what you think!