My 2 does freshened in mid-Sept.They are FF.Right now they are about at 90 days in lactation.I have not been weighing the milk.And have been mixing together the milk as I milk.Nevertheless I have noticed a marked drop in production over the last week and 1/2.I was getting 1 qt at a.m and p.m milking.Now is seems to consistantly be about 1cup less each milking.Last evening it was even less.Both does recently were in heat.I understand that production will go down during a heat.My feeding program is alfalfa hay fed in morning and around 3 pm.Milking at about 6:30 a.m. and p.m.When on the milkstand they get 1 cup rolled barley,about 1T.BOSS,1-2 teaspoon dried nettle and dried raspberry lvs and some alfalfa pellets(maybe 3 single handfuls ea.)Both goats seem healthy and even a little plump.The dams of both were good producers (close to 2 qts a day)The dams were also fed alfalfa and rolled barley.
so my questions :Am I seeing a usual tapering off for a FF?Am I seeing a drop due to heats and can I expect production to come back up at all?And what other info do people have have about lactations.Thank-you
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I'm not using Purina anymore. I use a local feed from a grainery south of me. The copper levels in it are even higher than Purina. :)
Purina goat chow's first ingredients are: Grain products, Processed grain by-products, Plant protein products, Molasses
products,
"plant protein" is probably soy. I find mystery ingredients very aggravating (sorry, commerical livestock feed is a big pet peeve of mine). I suspect this is probably "trash" from processing for other products, since by products are listed. In order to get as high as 16% protein it would almost have to be soy, nothing else has that much protein.
My goats milk pretty well with field peas as the protein source. I stole the idea from Countryside Organics, whose feed I use sometimes. But they mix in a powder vitamin/mineral supplement to the feed which my goats reliably eat around and waste. So I mix my own grain of the ingredients minus the corn and powder. I also give them non GMO alfalfa
I have been Albers Super Goat and have for the majority of the time I have had goats. Everyone seems to be doing well on it - anyone else using that??
Rachel Whetzel said:
That's one thing I really like about Purina's Goat Chow!! Not a huge amount of corn or soy in it. At least, they aren't the main ingredients!!
We're in a similar situation right now. The irony of it with first fresheners is that in our case if they still had the kids on them, and we were only milking once a day, we'd be getting more milk than we are getting now milking twice a day. We just did our milk test, and last month when both does were still nursing twins, they gave 2.6 and 2.7 pounds. The kids were sold about a week after the last test, and their supply has been dropping ever since. Their milk weights for the last 24 hours were 1.0 and 1.3 pounds. One goat freshened in September and one in October. We've seen this year after year, which is why we like to keep kids on moms. We can usually keep them separate for up to three days before seeing much of a drop in production, but when we see it, we put them together again, and the kids bring it back up for us.
I totally understand what you're saying about the grain, and I've tried to feed organic grain, but trying to create our own balanced ration proved impossible. There is an organic grain supplier a couple hours north of us, and in spite of the fact that they create great poultry rations, their nutritionist is under the horrendous impression that goats don't need copper, so they have a sheep & goat ration, which I wouldn't feed to my goats if they gave it to me because I've seen what copper deficiency does to goats. It might be easier to create a diet free of commercial grain in mountainous or desert areas out west where goats have been known to live in the wild, but the midwest just doesn't have what goats need to thrive, so we're stuck with commercial feeds if we want healthy goats.
On another thread I was just talking about doe behavior when one is in heat, and the one standing is the one in heat. The one mounting is just reacting to the doe in heat.
Thank-you again for this info.I am going to just let my does lactations play out for this season.I am a new milker too so I imagine my technique did not help things either.I don't think I will go the route of 3 milking a day.And I will look into the higher % protein for feed.I am not terribly thrilled with some of the "goat chows" out there.It seems they often have unknown ingredients and floor sweeping in them.And I am not too keen on the conventionally grown soy and corn loaded in many feeds.Also the 2 feed stores in my area do not even stock any sort of goat feed.That is not to say I can't order it.I have read a little about sprouting whole oats and whole barley and that looks interesting.
And one more question about heats.One of my does was most surely in heat a couple days ago.High pitch calling,very swollen volva,and discharge.My other doe was acting super bucky,doing all the classic buck gestures (except peeing on herself) and mounting my doe in heat.The bucky acting doe did not seem to have discharge and not any swelling or other heat signs .So is this bucky behavior her signs of being in heat or is she just reacting to the doe in heat?
Three milkings a day would definitely increase demand, and if you have the time and inclination, it is something to try to see if they'll increase production again. "As long as possible" for us generally just means as long as the kids will keep nursing, or when we want to dry up the doe. They'll often wean themselves after a few more months, although we did have one rare doe that nursed on her mother after she was a mother herself!
We tend to use the strategy of leaving kids on the dam regardless of whether they are first fresheners or not, simply so we have fewer goats to milk at night! As for whether this might affect future freshenings, it is hard to say for sure, but we try not to worry too much when we do have a first freshener dry up after three or four months. They tend to do better the second time around, with both production and longevity.
Only rarely have we seen a heat cycle affect milk production very strongly. By that, I mean the most I've seen is a slight drop in milk production on the same day I noticed flagging or mucus, and generally only in late summer, when they're just starting to get strong heats again. And yes, we have found that they have stronger heats in fall versus spring. In fact, until recently it had been impossible for us to successfully breed for fall kidding, even though Nigerians are supposed to have year-round cycles. However, we did have two does freshen in September/October this year, so it can be done!
I assume the protein gets to 16% with use of "plant protein products" mentioned in the ingredients, but I'm not sure of the specifics.
Ok--hey this is great info.I get it about using the kids to keep up production.But I wanted the milk and thought 2 milkings a day would create enough demand.If I had gone to 3 milkings a day I wonder how that would compare to the kids doing the work for me.And how long would "as long as possible" be?And is this a strategy just used on FF?And how will my handling of the FF's production affect future freshenings?
I am still also curious how heat cycles affect production.It seems to me that even though Nigis can be bred year around, the heats are more pronounced this time of year compared to say April or May.The heats also seem to last longer.So I could see there might be some influence on milk production.
I have wondered about my feeding program and protein amounts.But I wonder what is used as a protein ingredient in a goat chow like purina.Or any of the feed formulated to 16%
I did forget to write that I provide loose mineral(Sweetlix Meatmaker)and baking soda.And I just got kelp to put out free choice to.
I also take the goats out on forage walks.But right now things a dry and dead for winter.So foraging is usually dried black Locust leaves,willow leaves,treebark,California buckwheat(mostly dried flower tops),a rabbit brush,dried cottonwood leaves,a little bit of grass(mostly red brome),dried and a tiny bit of green.If we get as far as the stream there is wild blackberry.But right now on the all-in-all their diet is the hay ahd stuff on the milk stand.
Thank-you again-this is most interesting to me.I know I will think of more questions as I ponder this.
Yes, this tends to be typical in most first fresheners unfortunately. Three months is just about when that happens. Occasionally you'll have an exception; one that milks for 9-10 months as a first freshener without having to try very hard. One way we try to "combat" this is by leaving the kids on the first freshener during the day for as long as possible, separating the doe overnight, and milking in the morning. That way the kids are demanding milk all day, and more than they would have been demanding if they'd had access 24/7, so production tends to be pretty good. However, it sounds like the kids have already been separated so that isn't an option now.
One thing you might want to think about is using a goat chow like Purina. Your combination for their milkstand feeding doesn't sound like it has very much protein in it, which is necessary to keep supply up, especially past that three month mark. Most goat chows have at least 16% protein. Depending on how minerals are in your area, make sure they have access to free choice minerals and baking soda. We've found that perfecting all of this can take a while, but it really pays off in milk production!