Hello all,
One of my new doelings is very petite...I picked her because my family has a long tradition of loving and caring for slightly-disadvantaged animals, and because I believe she has great potential if we can get her growing. She's tough and giddy; she came from a larger herd where she had to push her way to the feeder, and even now with just one other doeling around, she still stands her ground when she wants her food. :) She's growing day by day, doing very well on Chaffhaye, forage and a bit of creep. Any other suggestions on how to get her weight up?
Thanks and I'm looking forward to being an active member of this forum...it's great!
Meagan
Replies
Just popping in to say thanks! I'm pretty sure it's genetic, but Fiver is indeed putting some weight already on a creep/lactating goat feed/regular goat feed combo (as well as a good 2nd cut hay mix and Chaffhaye). Someone else recommended a top dress feed that people use to fatten up their goats before shows (25% protein!) but they don't seem to like it very much...which is a good thing, since one of my three is obviously too good an eater. :)
So happy to be a part of this forum. Thanks again.
I've been off line for most of the weekend, so I am late to the discussion, and you have obviously gotten good advice from those that were here to answer you! You can't go wrong with advice from Deb. :)
I'm just popping into the convo to say WELCOME!! :)
I just wanted to add that I have a yearling doe who was nursing from mom until I sold mom when the doeling was a year old. She's very wide, with a very well developed rumen. She's also fat as a bear cub right now! All that milk made her grow fast. Now she needs to slim down and gain length and depth to go with all that width. :)
There is a problem with rumen development in kids that do not start eating food early enough. It is mostly a problem with bottle babies that do not have a role model, as some of them may not start eating until close to a month old. Dam raised kids start eating within a few days of birth. Continuing to consume milk does not affect rumen development. It enhances growth and vigor because of the easily digestible protein, high calcium, and antibodies. By never weaning doelings that we keep, we are able to breed almost all of them to kid as yearlings.
A kid should double her birthweight by 2 weeks of age, and I like my kids to be at least 20 pounds by 2 months, but some are up to 25 pounds by then. I don't normally sell a kid if it is less than 20 pounds. I'm not saying that the breeder did anything wrong, especially if you told her that you really wanted this particular kid. I was not nearly so picky the first few years I raised goats, simply because there was just so much that I didn't know, but I've become much more of a perfectionist through the years. It's great that you wanted to help a disadvantaged animal, and I did that too in the early years, but you just have to have your goals straight in your own head. Do you want to want to rescue animals or have productive dairy goats? Either one is a great goal, but it can be tough to do both.
You are correct that too much grain will upset their rumen. Best case scenario, they get diarrhea. Worst case, they will get enterotoxemia, bloat, or goat polio and die. I know someone who bought her first two goats and thought they should have free choice grain, and one of them was dead within a week or two from enterotoxemia.
If there is no copper, it's a lamb feed. The extra 1% protein does not make up for the loss of copper. If you are mixing it 50/50, that means the copper content is 27.5 ppm, which is not high enough. It really should be at least 35 ppm. There is much more to nutrition that simply protein, and IMHO there isn't any food that's going to make her suddenly start growing fast enough to get to normal size.
However, if this goat is that small, it sounds genetic -- like my Lil. She was born tiny but is the healthiest goat out there now, except that she's overweight! Not every goat has what it takes to be a dairy goat. Lil has a very important job here as a companion animal. Lots of people buy a wether as a companion to their first goat. Even if this doeling doesn't grow up to be big enough to breed, it's great that she's a companion to your other doeling.
Calf Manna is a good idea. Thanks, Julia! Is it possible that too much grain will upset their systems this early on? They love it, but I limit it for fear it'll overwhelm them...
Protein content in the lamb/kid creep is 17%, which is why I chose it. And it has no copper, which is why I mix it with the full-on adult goat grain, which has 16% protein and 55 ppm copper. I figured that extra one percent was worth mixing the two. And I was mistaken: they're not organic feeds.
The breeder kept her on the mother for eight weeks. My understanding is that keeping them on for too long can retard the development of the rumen. I have tried to supplement with some of her mother's milk, but she is done with it, as is the other doeling.
The breeder will "replace" her if she doesn't make it.
I do not intend to breed does who are not healthy or capable.
She is roughly 2-3 times her birth weight. I picked her out three weeks ago and went to get her the 19th. I've had her for four days.
I'm looking for additional ideas on sources of protein that are palatable to young ones.
Not all feeds are created equal, and I've never heard any goat breeder use the word "creep" to describe grain. I think that's a horse or maybe sheep term, which worries me. Organic is awesome, but it does not make up for missing nutrients. I don't feed my goats an organic grain because the only one I could find contained no copper, even though it was supposedly formulated by a "knowledgeable" person. What is the protein content of the feed? Also, I'm curious about the copper content because there are still too many people out there assuming that goats and sheep have the same nutritional needs.
I'm worried about someone selling a kid that size at 8 weeks. If I have one that is not growing as fast as it should, I won't let it go yet because it needs all the protein and calcium in its mother's milk. If she was dam raised, the odds of getting her to take a bottle now are pretty slim. Being part of a big herd is just not a reason for her to be that small. It's great that you are so positive about her, but all the love in the world might not be enough to make her grow to normal size. I have a six-year-old doe here that is the size of a normal six-month-old. I never sold her because she was not growing normally, and I'm glad I didn't sell her because she should never be bred. But she does have a very important job here as a companion animal to others that are sick, injured, or quarantined for any reason.
We really need more concrete details. What is the protein content of the grain you are feeding? How much does she weigh now? How much did she weigh when she arrived (and when was that)?
In general more protein will put weight on. You could add Calf Manna which is very palatable for young goats and high in protein. Also maybe look at how much "creep" you're feeding them and increase it if they are not gaining well.
Ah. No worries. :)
So sorry I didn't know what creep was. My mistake.
As I said, I'm feeding them creep, which is a grain specifically formulated for kids. Our local farm supply store makes excellent organic kid creep and other grain mixes for goats with the correct nutrient balance. This mixed in with a proper blend of other grains provided by the breeder, who fed it to them in small quantities before they came to me. I've been giving them about a half a cup morning and night, just after some chaffhaye and before turning them out to forage a bit. Also a bit of well-balanced organic hay.
The breeder did all she could for the littlest, and her herd is excellent. All of her other NDs are the proper size. Fiver was born the size of a coffee cup. One of three born to a proven and healthy doe.
So really I was just looking for any additional recommendations to what I'm doing. Not sure why you used all those exclamation points.
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