Posted by Kare on May 22, 2011 at 2:52pm in Health
I have some pictures on my page of my goats ears and nose, but I thought at first it was copper deficiency. However, upon closer inspection yesterday, I saw clumps of eggs near the base of the ears on several of the goats. From the research I did yesterday, this indicates mites and is also called mange. I also found some bald spots on the back legs of at least two of the does today when I was trimming hooves. Has anyone ever had this type of mites? If so, what did you do for it? Also, I read that this type of mites can transfer to humans and it is called scabies. Is that true? If so, we will probably need to fumigate our house. Can it also transfer to chickens, cats, dogs?
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In Goat Science and Production, Solomain says that mineral requirements of goats are not well understood or studied, and most of the info on it comes from sheep and cattle research, so your guess is probably as good as anyone's. My jar of blackstrap molasses says that one tablespoon is 60 calories and has 70% of the US RDA of iron for a human, so a teaspoon is only 20 calories and about 23% of the iron an adult human needs. Keep in mind that copper deficiency also causes anemia, so the new mineral might help.
Kare at Chaverah Farm said:
Ok, I won't give her anymore.
I don't know what the issue could be and I can't afford to take her to the vet unless she begins to show some other symptoms that concern me. That is her only symptom and it has definitely improved, just hasn't gone away.
Did I give her a good dosage, she is probably around 50 pounds and 19.5 inches tall?
I don't know what the issue could be and I can't afford to take her to the vet unless she begins to show some other symptoms that concern me. That is her only symptom and it has definitely improved, just hasn't gone away.
Did I give her a good dosage, she is probably around 50 pounds and 19.5 inches tall?
I've never given blackstrap molasses for more than a few days -- really just until the goat's anemia improved. I wouldn't give it to a goat that wasn't anemic, and if the anemia isn't improving within a few days, there are underlying issues that need to be addressed.
You could just try clipping around their necks. They clipped the whole side of my doe that had the c-section in February, and she survived below zero temps.
Kare at Chaverah Farm said:
I still can't clip my goats. I started to over the weekend because one day it was up in the 80s, but now we are having rain with highs in the 50s and lows in the high 30s and I'm concerned about the ones that I started to do. (only finished one, wow, that is a lot of work!) I don't want to clip any more right now.
I will look on their necks and see what I can see.
I don't know what that doe's issue is. She is one of the two that I have had a fecal done on (came back clean) and the vet did use a sugar solution, so I really don't think she has worms. I am still giving her molasses - about a teaspoon in water - and alfalfa pellets, plus a clove of garlic every day. I will probably stop giving her the garlic and continue with the pellets.
Deborah, you had expressed concern about sugars, do you think the BlackStrap Molasses is ok to give daily at that dosage? Or is that too much sugar?
I still can't clip my goats. I started to over the weekend because one day it was up in the 80s, but now we are having rain with highs in the 50s and lows in the high 30s and I'm concerned about the ones that I started to do. (only finished one, wow, that is a lot of work!) I don't want to clip any more right now.
I will look on their necks and see what I can see.
I don't know what that doe's issue is. She is one of the two that I have had a fecal done on (came back clean) and the vet did use a sugar solution, so I really don't think she has worms. I am still giving her molasses - about a teaspoon in water - and alfalfa pellets, plus a clove of garlic every day. I will probably stop giving her the garlic and continue with the pellets.
Deborah, you had expressed concern about sugars, do you think the BlackStrap Molasses is ok to give daily at that dosage? Or is that too much sugar?
Deborah Niemann-Boehle said:
It's fairly easy to know if they have lice because you can see them. They're usually up around the neck, head, shoulder area. If in doubt, you can always clip the goat, and that will get rid of them if they have any.
Coccidia is not a worm, and I've never heard of anything other than worms causing bottlejaw.
It's fairly easy to know if they have lice because you can see them. They're usually up around the neck, head, shoulder area. If in doubt, you can always clip the goat, and that will get rid of them if they have any.
Coccidia is not a worm, and I've never heard of anything other than worms causing bottlejaw.
I used Permectrin on my herd for lice, as recommended by my vet. It was a concentrate and they told me to wipe it on and then repeat two weeks later. I don't know if it was effective or not.
Also, regarding the doe with Bottle Jaw, it is *slightly* better. Yesterday it seemed much better. Also, I realized that I was looking at the top eyelid and yesterday I looked at her lower lid and it was more like a B2, rather than dangerously low. Would that be enough to cause anemia? Or could it be cocci that is not displaying any other symptoms? She was treated for that a couple of weeks ago when the vet found it was elevated in her fecal sample. It wasn't out of control, but more than she should have. Maybe I need to treat her again for that?
Her energy is good, color is good, coat is rough, tail is up, appetite is good. Just face a bit puffy and moreso on the nose and a little bit on the jaw.
According to Goat Science and Production by Sandra G. Solaiman, Ph.D., professor of agricultural sciences (2010), there are three classes of dewormers available in the U.S. -- benzimidazoles, imidazothiazoles, and macrocyclic lactones. In lay terms, they are generally known as the clear, the white, and the solid dewormers. Benzimidazoles are the white ones, fenbendazole (Safeguard, Panacur) and albendazole (Valbazen). Imidazothiazoles are those usually in a solid form, including levamisole (Levisol bolus) and morantel tartrate (Rumatel feed additive, Positive Pellet medicated feed) -- I say usually solid because they do sell levamisole as a powder that can be mixed with water and drenched. Macrocyclic lactones include ivermectin (brand name Ivomec) and moxidectin (Cydectin). Eprinex also falls into this category. Only two of these dewormers are even approved for use in goats -- morantel tartrate and fenbendazole -- so the manufacturer has done no research on any of the others in goats.
Solomain says that oral administration of dewormers is the preferred method. "Pour-on products are not recommended because field-use observations (unpublished) are mixed regarding whether pour-on products (approved for use in cattle only) work on small ruminants, and for the most part, they do not seem to be that effective."
If your goats also had lice, it is possible that the Eprinex killed the lice, and that resulted in their anemia improving. Although FAMACHA was developed to determine anemia because of losses due to barberpole, there are multiple causes of anemia.
Rachel Whetzel said:
I agree about personally instituting a withhold time. Even when the package says you don't have to. As to the internal, I monitored using the FAMACHA chart, and there was improvement from before use and after. It was the only treatment I gave. What do you mean by class of wormer? Because their active ingredients are not the same... what makes them the same class? Do you know how they do that?
I agree about personally instituting a withhold time. Even when the package says you don't have to. As to the internal, I monitored using the FAMACHA chart, and there was improvement from before use and after. It was the only treatment I gave. What do you mean by class of wormer? Because their active ingredients are not the same... what makes them the same class? Do you know how they do that?
I've never heard anyone dispute the fact that pour-ons work on external parasites in goats. However, many goat owners told me for years that they do not work on goats for internal parasites, and I've seen it written in goat textbooks that use of pour-ons on goats is of "questionable" value. The other thing about Eprinex is that it is in the same class of dewormer as ivermectin, so according to the research, if you have a resistance problem with ivermectin, Eprinex won't work much better. Although Cydectin is also in that same class, it is just way stronger and somehow does manage to work a bit better than the others.
As for zero milk withdrawal, I personally have a hard time believing that if a drug is in an animal's blood, it is not in the milk. One reason I want to produce my own dairy products is because I want it to be free of drugs, and there are a lot of drugs approved for use in dairy animals with no withdrawal time. But then, I disagree with the FDA on the "safety" of a lot of foods.
Rachel Whetzel said:
I use Ivomec Eprinex pour on. Don't let the Ivomec fool you. It's not the same as ivermectin. Here's a tech sheet about it. I like it because there is no withholding time for milk or meat. http://au.merial.com/pdf/ivomec_eprinex_tech_sheet.pdf
Replies
Kare at Chaverah Farm said:
Ok, I won't give her anymore.
I don't know what the issue could be and I can't afford to take her to the vet unless she begins to show some other symptoms that concern me. That is her only symptom and it has definitely improved, just hasn't gone away.
Did I give her a good dosage, she is probably around 50 pounds and 19.5 inches tall?
I've never given blackstrap molasses for more than a few days -- really just until the goat's anemia improved. I wouldn't give it to a goat that wasn't anemic, and if the anemia isn't improving within a few days, there are underlying issues that need to be addressed.
You could just try clipping around their necks. They clipped the whole side of my doe that had the c-section in February, and she survived below zero temps.
Kare at Chaverah Farm said:
I still can't clip my goats. I started to over the weekend because one day it was up in the 80s, but now we are having rain with highs in the 50s and lows in the high 30s and I'm concerned about the ones that I started to do. (only finished one, wow, that is a lot of work!) I don't want to clip any more right now.
I will look on their necks and see what I can see.
I don't know what that doe's issue is. She is one of the two that I have had a fecal done on (came back clean) and the vet did use a sugar solution, so I really don't think she has worms. I am still giving her molasses - about a teaspoon in water - and alfalfa pellets, plus a clove of garlic every day. I will probably stop giving her the garlic and continue with the pellets.
Deborah, you had expressed concern about sugars, do you think the BlackStrap Molasses is ok to give daily at that dosage? Or is that too much sugar?
Deborah Niemann-Boehle said:
It's fairly easy to know if they have lice because you can see them. They're usually up around the neck, head, shoulder area. If in doubt, you can always clip the goat, and that will get rid of them if they have any.
Coccidia is not a worm, and I've never heard of anything other than worms causing bottlejaw.
I used Permectrin on my herd for lice, as recommended by my vet. It was a concentrate and they told me to wipe it on and then repeat two weeks later. I don't know if it was effective or not.
Also, regarding the doe with Bottle Jaw, it is *slightly* better. Yesterday it seemed much better. Also, I realized that I was looking at the top eyelid and yesterday I looked at her lower lid and it was more like a B2, rather than dangerously low. Would that be enough to cause anemia? Or could it be cocci that is not displaying any other symptoms? She was treated for that a couple of weeks ago when the vet found it was elevated in her fecal sample. It wasn't out of control, but more than she should have. Maybe I need to treat her again for that?
Her energy is good, color is good, coat is rough, tail is up, appetite is good. Just face a bit puffy and moreso on the nose and a little bit on the jaw.
According to Goat Science and Production by Sandra G. Solaiman, Ph.D., professor of agricultural sciences (2010), there are three classes of dewormers available in the U.S. -- benzimidazoles, imidazothiazoles, and macrocyclic lactones. In lay terms, they are generally known as the clear, the white, and the solid dewormers. Benzimidazoles are the white ones, fenbendazole (Safeguard, Panacur) and albendazole (Valbazen). Imidazothiazoles are those usually in a solid form, including levamisole (Levisol bolus) and morantel tartrate (Rumatel feed additive, Positive Pellet medicated feed) -- I say usually solid because they do sell levamisole as a powder that can be mixed with water and drenched. Macrocyclic lactones include ivermectin (brand name Ivomec) and moxidectin (Cydectin). Eprinex also falls into this category. Only two of these dewormers are even approved for use in goats -- morantel tartrate and fenbendazole -- so the manufacturer has done no research on any of the others in goats.
Solomain says that oral administration of dewormers is the preferred method. "Pour-on products are not recommended because field-use observations (unpublished) are mixed regarding whether pour-on products (approved for use in cattle only) work on small ruminants, and for the most part, they do not seem to be that effective."
If your goats also had lice, it is possible that the Eprinex killed the lice, and that resulted in their anemia improving. Although FAMACHA was developed to determine anemia because of losses due to barberpole, there are multiple causes of anemia.
Rachel Whetzel said:
I've never heard anyone dispute the fact that pour-ons work on external parasites in goats. However, many goat owners told me for years that they do not work on goats for internal parasites, and I've seen it written in goat textbooks that use of pour-ons on goats is of "questionable" value. The other thing about Eprinex is that it is in the same class of dewormer as ivermectin, so according to the research, if you have a resistance problem with ivermectin, Eprinex won't work much better. Although Cydectin is also in that same class, it is just way stronger and somehow does manage to work a bit better than the others.
As for zero milk withdrawal, I personally have a hard time believing that if a drug is in an animal's blood, it is not in the milk. One reason I want to produce my own dairy products is because I want it to be free of drugs, and there are a lot of drugs approved for use in dairy animals with no withdrawal time. But then, I disagree with the FDA on the "safety" of a lot of foods.
Rachel Whetzel said:
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