I know that some goat owners inbreed. I talk to a lady last weekend that bred father to daughter. I think that is to close and would never do it. But I am wondering how close is too close when inbreeding. Would breeding a doe to her half brother be to close?
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Wow! This was a really helpful discussion to read. Thank you all! I am contemplating keeping a buckling for the first time. From what I am reading, I can breed him to his mother's half sister, his mother's half sister's doe, but not to his mother or his sister, unless I want to test out perfect genetics or take the risk of possible defects. I have been driving my does to a buck the last few years.
I also read in another discussion that housing him nearby, but separate should not pose any risk to the taste of the milk. This whole breeding thing is sounding less complicated. Thank you all for sharing :)
LOL, especially since it would be unfair to treat everyone else but the wee one. This doe in question is actually my favorite, she's just an absolute lamb (and probably my best lines). So after hearing the small buck theory I was afraid for her safety. She's a bit chunky too, I really shouldn't give her an extra treat for being so cute and sweet. :) She just seems different when you're looking at animals under 2' tall..every inch changes the appearance?
A 19" doe isn't that short. I have a couple that size and have bred them to 23" bucks with no problems. The tiny doe I have that will never be bred is the size of a 6-month-old -- and very fat! Not sure how to keep a dry doe from gaining weight.
Thank you, just wanted to confirm. :) Hopefully the kids will be taller than my doe at 19", buck is about 21 or 22.
DQ is short for disqualification. I would also include a serious fault in there because it makes the kids impossible to show. Who wants to be guaranteed last place even if you're not disqualified? A teat defect is the most common thing you would see, but things like a Roman nose or any ear type other than erect would also be undesirable in NDs.
Kimberly Martin said:
Thank you Deborah, that clears up my questions for the day with the exception of the "DQ". What is that?
About lutalyse -- it's by prescription only. I've been told you give it at day 7 and always did that, but I don't know how far out you can give it. I'd ask the vet when you get the prescription.
If you have an accidental breeding and know who daddy is, you can breed them. If the kids turn out good, there isn't any reason not to register them simply because it was an accidental breeding. Sometimes those can turn out great. If, however, the kid has a DQ, you should not register it, even if it was a planned breeding. And make a note to NOT repeat that breeding.
My personal feeling on size is that if a doe is not big enough to be safely bred to any ND buck that is within the standard, she should not be registered or ever bred. I have a four-year-old that still lives here for that very reason -- not to mention the fact that she would be worthless as a milk goat. If she developed an udder big enough to be productive, her teats would be so close to the ground she'd be nearly impossible to milk, and I'd be worried about sanitation issues, mastitis, as well as her possible stepping on her teats and damaging them when going from laying to standing (this happens with some dairy cows). If somebody wants itsy bitsy goats for pets, they can get pygmies and deal with their high c-section rate, which has caused several people I know to stop breeding them, including a vet. I would never breed a smaller doe to a smaller buck specifically because I would not want to propagate smaller genes. Good milking NDs are usually 20-22 inches.
As for breeding a doe to a different buck in a different heat cycle -- you know who the sire is based upon the delivery date of the kids. Pregnancy is usually 145-150 days. If doe gives birth 175 days after being bred to a buck, then he is NOT the sire. Or if she gives birth 125 days after being bred, and the kids are alive, he is not the sire. It's possible that the breeder changed their mind from one cycle to the next or that a buck escaped. I recently had a doe give birth at day 155, and I was going to do DNA testing because I didn't think it could have been the buck I bred her to, but luckily, the kid had blue eyes, so it was obvious who daddy was! Still, I'm thinking that she probably came back into heat five or six days after originally being bred, and I stuck her back in with the buck and forgot to write it down. But let's say you had a doe give birth on Feb. 1, which was 142 days after being bred to buck A and 163 days after being bred to buck B. Even though it's not between 145 and 150, there is NO way a ND went 163 days pregnant, so the sire is buck A.
Thanks for the response Rachel. My registry question was more along the lines of selling them as pets? The breeder I bought from had unregistered goats also, since she didn't know who the sire was in those breedings (all of her goats are purebred). I'm concerned about what you mentioned though, that's why I asked!
I asked about this doe's size, because she was supposedly bred when purchased to a small buck. I was told she should be bred to a small buck for her safety? I wonder if in the breed this makes any difference, if you aren't trying to make itsy bitsy nigis (which some people do like to have)?
Which brings up another breeding question, I recently saw a site where the breeder had bred does to one buck and then listed a different buck breeding the next heat, I think. How can you be sure who the sire is in those cases, and why is this done?
I'm by no means the expert on this subject, but I have a few thoughts in regards to your comment/Q, Kimberly.
"Are these "accidents" generally registered if perfect? Or am I on a really taboo subject now?"
Personally, I would register them, because I think it would be important to keep documentation (for any potential breeders of offspring, etc. in the future) of this breeding in case issues arise down the line.
"What if you don't want "smaller" kids? My buckling is "regular" sized (longer legs)."
From what I have gathered in conversations here, buck size isn't usually a huge factor in offspring size when breeding ND to ND... case in point: I'll be buying from a buck that is pretty small, and his single buckling is larger than the other buckling I'm buying that is a full week older than he. I think that there are other factors in how large a kid will get. (if it's a single vs. quad... genetics of the doe... all of that)
I have questions on this as well. The lady I bought my does from told me my buckling could be used on his "half sister" (same sires, dame's completely different lines). I started reading and found information all over the place in opinion. One lady I found even breeds full siblings regularly and gets the state champion every year out of those pairings?
I was not going to do it, but buckling learned to jump the 4' fence, so he's now in a higher, smaller pen, no running starts! I (being a new idiot) didn't know about lute, so we shall see! Are these "accidents" generally registered if perfect? Or am I on a really taboo subject now?
IF anyone has accidental breedings, I've read to use lute anywhere from 7 days to 30 days..what would the dose be for a nigi? I intend to keep it on hand, even though the buck pen is repaired.
This is even worst than waiting on pasture bred does...and completely my fault. I've never felt so irresponsible before.
Also, the half sister is 5 years old but small (very short legs). Does it make a difference if she is bred by a "regular" nigi buck or should he be of small stature, too? What if you don't want "smaller" kids? My buckling is "regular" sized (longer legs).
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