HELP! I think I have a sick goat.

Rachel Whetzel at MigMog Acres March 21, 2011 at 12:51pm

Cool, so I'll just use the rye grass pellets or maybe raisins to get them into the barn!

Deborah Niemann-Boehle March 21, 2011 at 8:31am

Goats only need alfalfa when they're milking, and believe me, they will eat! Having so many freshen so quickly this year, it was quite a shock to suddenly have the hay consumption increase exponentially -- water consumption, too!

I totally understand about the difficulty of finding information on doing things more naturally. When I got my first turkeys, I had never found anything that did NOT say they would all die if I didn't give them medicated feed. At the time, it felt like a huge leap of faith to feed them organic feed, but on the other hand, I kept thinking that they'd be extinct if they needed medicated grain -- and turkeys do live wild in Illinois -- so unlike the goats, I know we have everything we need right here for them to thrive.

Rachel Whetzel said:

pretty much. It's what I use to get them into the barn at night so I can lock them up! lol They don't like it near as much. I could probably use a couple raisins... lol I also don't have a good source of browsing for them, so I like to have a couple options for them. When we can, we put tree trimmings in their yard so they can browse like they would if they had free range of the place. Also, I read a lot about goats needing alfalfa. I'm still learning... and trying to adjust what I want to do with my herd and what they are "used" to with their past owners. (especially my older doe) I really appreciate all your input. I feel like you have the farm I want to have and use a lot of the practices I want to "grow up" to have... one day I will come and see it all first hand! lol It all gets confusing too... because a lot of accepted practices aren't really what I want to implement. With my chickens, I feel like it's been a lot easier to weed through the "traditionally accepted practices" and figure out which ones actually apply to me. With goats, it hasn't been so easy.

Rachel Whetzel at MigMog Acres March 21, 2011 at 12:59am

pretty much. It's what I use to get them into the barn at night so I can lock them up! lol They don't like it near as much. I could probably use a couple raisins... lol I also don't have a good source of browsing for them, so I like to have a couple options for them. When we can, we put tree trimmings in their yard so they can browse like they would if they had free range of the place. Also, I read a lot about goats needing alfalfa. I'm still learning... and trying to adjust what I want to do with my herd and what they are "used" to with their past owners. (especially my older doe) I really appreciate all your input. I feel like you have the farm I want to have and use a lot of the practices I want to "grow up" to have... one day I will come and see it all first hand! lol It all gets confusing too... because a lot of accepted practices aren't really what I want to implement. With my chickens, I feel like it's been a lot easier to weed through the "traditionally accepted practices" and figure out which ones actually apply to me. With goats, it hasn't been so easy.

Deborah Niemann-Boehle March 20, 2011 at 10:01pm

I'm not sure why you want to give them alfalfa pellets in addition to actual hay. Is it to help them adjust to the lack of grain? If so, I'd say that you should just give them a cup a day or something small.

Rachel Whetzel at MigMog Acres March 20, 2011 at 7:54pm

OK... so in an effort to get the goats on the kind of diet they need... I am going to try to switch to alfalfa pellets. I also got a bag of Rye grass pellets... do I offer these two free choice, since they are grasses? Or do I offer them in portioned amounts? (either way, they'll still have actual hay free choice as well.)

Rachel Whetzel at MigMog Acres March 20, 2011 at 9:28am

Thanks for all the good information, Deb!! I'll keep an eye on her with the grain... when I got her she was overweight, but I got that under control... now I'm not SURE whether she's "normal" for her or not. I might try reducing grain and see what happens to her weight wise.

Deborah Niemann-Boehle March 20, 2011 at 5:15am

That can be tricky. If you watch the udder, it usually starts to fill up a couple weeks before they kid, so you could start giving a little grain (like 1/2 cup) when it looks about half full, and as it gets fuller, increase the amount of grain up to a cup. First fresheners often don't get a very big udder, so it's a little more tricky; however, in this case, I wouldn't worry about it because they so often have a single kid that I'm very conservative with grain for them, because I don't want a four-pound kid coming out of a little yearling! I've played around with different quantities of grain, and it pretty much all goes to the kids, so even if you didn't give grain at all, the kids would probably be fine unless the doe was having quads, then they might just be a little smaller. Quads are almost unheard of in first fresheners, although I did have one that had quads. Three of the kids were a healthy weight, and one of them was a pound and a half, but there is not much you can do about runts.

Kare at Chaverah Farm said:

Regarding the grain, what if you don't know when it is the last week of pregnancy? =)

Deborah Niemann-Boehle March 20, 2011 at 5:06am

Hmm ... you sound like my mother. Whenever I didn't clean my plate, she would say, "What's wrong? Are you sick?" Unless the goat was losing weight, it's okay if she doesn't eat much. I have a 12 year old doe that gets a cup of grain every day because she gets skinny without it, but otherwise, I haven't seen a non-lactating doe that needed grain. If we're thinking of the same post, the person who said that goats don't switch well if they're not started on hay was talking about goats that are NEVER fed grain -- in other words, if you want grass-based dairy, it's best to never feed grain. But you can definitely stop feeding grain to a goat that's not in milk. I do it every year as soon as a doe stops milking two months before her due date. She gets no grain for about six weeks between the time she's dried off and the time that she's a week away from kidding.

If you have loose minerals available free choice, you don't need to feed grain. The loose minerals should provide everything they need.

Your LGD theory is certainly worth pursuing. Some of them can be a little hard on goats, especially if they're young.

Rachel Whetzel said:

Thanks, Deborah!! I spent the after noon with her... she seems to be OK this evening... No shivering. I'm thinking maybe she's cold in the mornings? My younger goat has a more undercoat. The main reason I give any grain is because it's got minerals in it... and she doesn't eat much else very well. (someone mentioned that goats not started out hay/alfalfa only sometimes don't do so well switching? I think she might be one of THOSE goats. lol)

I'm also thinking my livestock guardian dog might be harassing her. I'm going to start separating them at night again and see if she doesn't gain back some confidence.

Today I combed her coat and didn't find any external parasites, but I dusted her with DE to be sure, and gave her some wormer (safe for pregnant goats) Trimmed both of their hooves... We'll see how things go.

ETA I'll have to wait until payday to order copper in that quantity. :P

Kare March 20, 2011 at 12:26am

Regarding the grain, what if you don't know when it is the last week of pregnancy? =)

Deborah Niemann-Boehle said:

If she's shivering, you can put a t-shirt or sweatshirt on her. Just cut the sleeves off a sweatshirt, and it should fit her fine.

Thanks for the reminder that I need to order more copper. Here's the link on Jeffers:

http://www.jefferslivestock.com/copasure/camid/LIV/cp/16535/

They're usually pretty quick to ship.

You *might* be paranoid. Nothing sounded all that odd, other than the shivering. How old is she?

You're supposed to have the loose minerals available free choice, so if she's picking around it in the feed, she probably doesn't need it. In fact she may not need the extra copper. You didn't mention any symptoms of copper deficiency.

If she's not milking, she doesn't need grain. Granted 1/2 cup is not much, but giving "too much" grain during pregnancy can cause mineral imbalances and very large kids. We just had our first 5 pound kid here because my daughter misunderstood my feeding instructions. I really don't want to do that again. I don't usually give grain until the last week of pregnancy.

Rachel Whetzel at MigMog Acres March 19, 2011 at 9:15pm

Thanks, Deborah!! I spent the after noon with her... she seems to be OK this evening... No shivering. I'm thinking maybe she's cold in the mornings? My younger goat has a more undercoat. The main reason I give any grain is because it's got minerals in it... and she doesn't eat much else very well. (someone mentioned that goats not started out hay/alfalfa only sometimes don't do so well switching? I think she might be one of THOSE goats. lol)

I'm also thinking my livestock guardian dog might be harassing her. I'm going to start separating them at night again and see if she doesn't gain back some confidence.

Today I combed her coat and didn't find any external parasites, but I dusted her with DE to be sure, and gave her some wormer (safe for pregnant goats) Trimmed both of their hooves... We'll see how things go.

ETA I'll have to wait until payday to order copper in that quantity. :P

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HELP! I think I have a sick goat.

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