I've posted 6 pictures that I took today of my goat, Bella. She has very dry, flaky skin and hair loss around her eyes, muzzle, on her face, top of her ears and white, crusty skin uner her tail. At first I thought it was mange, from the symptoms(she has not been seen by a vet). I treated her with the Ivomec pour-on for cattle, 3 times, 10 days apart, dosage was 2 and 1/2 ml down the back. Later, I found out this was not the best thing to do. I ordered the COWP and gave it to her yesterday, thinking a copper deficiency. I also read zinc deficiency has very similar symptoms as mange, but I don't know what to give for zinc deficiency. If anyone has ever had the same experience with their goats, or has any suggestions, I'd appreciate your input. Some of you have already given advice from earlier discussions on the worming rotation forum. Thank you.
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I had a doe with the flaky skin problem. Hair loss/scabs on face/ears/legs, thin coat etc. After treating w/everything, I decided it was a zinc issue. There are articles you can find on the web about Hereditary Zinc Malabsorption. Her sister & kids all had it too. All of them are in the freezer. Her skin/coat were so bad she had to wear a jacket all winter, & even then wasn't warm. I have spoken to others who have this & I have found some common genetic links. I do believe the does who have this should be culled. Of course you must rule out all other causes such as lice, mites, vitamin deficiency etc. For those who have does kidding, check the kids before selling. I found it started at about 5 months with crustiness under the tail, & minor flaky skin. Some get worse than others, I know one who died. It's a bummer to have to part with a much loved doe (never mind the cost!) But continuing to breed bad genetics is bad business. Again, rule out everything else first!!!
Mason, please be sure to read the comments here in this thread. There is good information about trouble shooting this issue in your goats.
Hi, I have 2 pregnant does that I just noticed today with the same problem. The rest of the herd seem fine. At first I just thought they were shedding with the warmer weather, but then noticed areas just like the one you described. If anyone gets to the bottom of this please let me know. I am worried about the babies. Thanks!
By all means listen to your vet and Deborah about things but just in case you are not aware -You stated that you re-coppered again in August and her conditioned worsened! Coppering itself can also cause a lot of hair lose. Several of us on the forum have had goats lose hair after coppering, including myself. In fact when it happened to Marley, I could just grab hold of a handful with a slight tug and it would just come right out! It was almost like a dog shedding out a long winter coat and there was a beautiful new healthy coat right there coming in so it may not necessarily be an infection this time!
Just a thought. Hoping maybe this time it is something that simple instead of a recurring worse problem! Best to you both!
It sounds like classic zinc deficiency. And it very well could have gotten infected. 1/8 of a tablet sounds like next to nothing. What was the strength of the tablet?
J Maple said:
I'm surely late in getting back to answer this thread...but, we did zinc every day (1/8th of zinc tablet...or smaller) She wouldn't eat the BOSS...go figure. Re coppered again in Aug and her condition worsened. Took her to a different vet...who did multiple scrapings, hair samples, ran cultures, etc. It was a very deeply bedded skin infection. He suggested to use Baytril for 14 days. Which I did, bc there was no other options. (We have really high quality loose minerals out, free-choice...as well as Kelp. Specialized Dairy Goat feed, alfalfa blend hay, plus forage and pasture all day). I did the treatment...her skin cleared up. I have continued to give her immune enhancing herbs along w/ pro-bios....to jump start her immune system. She looked good for about three weeks...new hair, soft skin...and now, she's starting to get scaley again...sigh.
Any other ideas
Hi all --
Thank you, Laura for your comments and advice. I still am not sure that what I'm seeing on Edward is lice and not just dandruff. I did rub a diluted solution of Permethrin on his back, legs, and ears and he seems to be less itchy. I plan to put Vet Rx in/on his ears for ear mites as soon as it arrives in the mail. He seems to have lost some of his undercoat - a lot of it came out after I put on the Permethrin and gave him a good brushing. Now I just see a few tufts of flaky undercoat coming out on their own. He is overall less flaky, but still somewhat - particularly on his head and around the ears. I posted some pictures on my page if anyone wants to check them out. He seems to have lost the most hair on the backs of his front legs. Diet wise I've been hand feeding loose minerals (i always have MannaPro loose mineral out free choice, but it's hard to monitor Edward's personal intake that way) I've also been giving vit. E, A and D in liquid form over the last few days as well as a powder probiotic as a top dressing to a BOSS, apple, carrot "salad". The skin on his nose looks a little less dry but it's so hard to tell if it's really improving - I'm sure the hair regrowth process is slow. I also plan to copper bolus as soon as the supplies arrive. We're still a little low on the greenery around here but there's always privet and ivy, and the boys get as much of that as they want in addition to hay. Edward's energy is never terrible but he has been extra perky these last few days - not sure if it's good weather or the extra vitamins... :)
I'll keep you all posted - thanks again for reading!
I agree that zinc could be a major part of the problem. It is great to hear that your goat is looking so much better, you must be doing something right!
Overall, I wanted to mention with mineral imbalances how hard it is to know for sure (for zinc, copper, selenium etc.) without performing a range of analyses- soil, hay, ultimately liver from the animal itself (which either requires biopsy or necropsy, neither particularly desirable tests to run especially the latter). It gets so tricky with mineral imbalances- how to know what to supplement at what dose- does it become therapeutic or toxic? And perhaps supplementing is therapeutic for one animal and not safe for another. Without diagnostic tests to confirm the mineral status of an animal, or a trend in a herd, supplementing is based on speculation and it is possible to cause toxicity issues. In fact excess zinc will decrease copper absorption. So, my main thought to share in this discussion is simply that no mineral (or micronutrient, really, as Amy has pointed out with Vit A) acts alone- they all interact and when we increase some we need to keep in mind what it might do to others. Mineral imbalances seem to be so common (widespread) and we absolutely need to correct imbalances when they exist. I don't think the veterinary community has been proactive enough in pursuing the role mineral imbalance plays in disease- whether sub clinical or overt clinical disease. Until then, when we choose to supplement our own herds without analyses, be cognizant of any potential ripple effect that supplement could have!
Amy said:
Hi to all...
Ok...just to give you an update...I did go to the Vet...he scraped and took hair samples both...nothing. However, he gave me an anti-biotic (in case it was some kind of bacterial thing)...he also told me to go to the Drug Store to buy a Vaginal Cream that has Miconazole (Monistat) or clotrimizole (sp)...OR....Tinactin for Atlhelete's foot...basically any of those Over-the-counter products (albeit two completely different areas/treatment...haha) have the same "anti-fungal" properites...in case the problem is fungal (like a ringworm strain) which she didn't have w/ the hair sample... then he suggested to wash the area w/ a Mange shampoo first, in case it was a Scabies or Sarcoptic Mange, which she didn't have w/ the scraping....THEN, he prescribed, an ivermec type pour-on in case it was lice---which he didn't think it was....but he told me to do all of it...
Basically the "Kitchen Sink" approach. She wasn't itching often, so he ruled out the Scabies...although the backs of her front legs had also lost hair---as if she'd rubbed the hair off. I went with the shampoo, the Vaginal cream, and the antibiotics...(bc I had Pro-bios)...in the meantime, I also gave her herbal immune enhancer I bought from Firmeadows.
By the way, She is black....
I saw very little results w/ the Vet's recommendations/treatment...so when the cream ran out, I prayed...and decided to use BlueKote. That I bought at Tractor Supply. It has a dauber on the end and I can coat the back of her legs...then I use Q-tips to paint around her eyes, and also under her mouth...bc she licks off anything above her mouth. She's in w/ about 20 other goats...only one other has some hair loss around her eyes...(minimal)...so I paint her w/ the BlueKote...(she looks like Lady Ga-Ga, bc she's lighter brown...and since the other doe is all black... the Blue doesn't show up as well).
I also found that if I was the leg area with warm, anti-bacterial soapy water with just the tiniest bit of bleach, and scrub her legs well, that seems to slough off the dry skin, and in my mind, kills whatever it is---if it is---anything "creepy/crawly"
I've looked and don't see lice, or really anything else...the scrapings and the hair sample also proved nothing. But, the BlueKote seems to be helping...in addition to the herbal supplement, and I also am giving some flax seed oil ---1/2 cc---as well as rubbing down the areas around the eyes, perhaps as well....Coconut oil would work too, I'd guess. I'm not familiar with Camalina.
Vitamin C would probably help...I have that on my list...and the same w/ Vitamin E....I just need to get those here at the barn. I've re-COWPED her ....and Bo-se...hopefully some/all of the above will take care of it...PRAYER is the most important...and I feel like the BlueKote was His direction for me to take...
I'm not sure that solidifies anything...but at least its an update...and they are both somewhat better...not as quickly or as much as I'd like to see...but are no worse...at least.
Hi Anne, if he has lice you should be able to see them very readily as they are visible to the naked eye (albeit very small). They look like grains of sand. In the past my goats have had bouts of lice here and there and I have used permectrin pour on if they have gotten uncomfortable, especially in the spring when the lice seem to get worse. But the lice I was treating was the chewing kind (not the sucking kind) so you'll need to be sure that what you are using gets both unless you know what type (lice) you would be dealing with. I wouldn't reach for the chemicals unless you can really see the lice- if you can see them take a few to your vet and they can tell you chewing vs. sucking. Even if you find lice it sounds like the bigger issue is this mineral/vitamin/enzyme whatever it is problem we have been discussing.
What sort of minerals do you give your goats? If they are low in copper I have safely given my goats small doses of COWP boluses. Also, I gave my goat in this case a bo-se injection if you are in a selenium def area. Other than that- OFAs in the form of flax, camalina oil, even coconut oil. Perhaps a vit E capsule daily for a week or two. This is not medical advice as I don't know your herd but some ideas to consider.
I wish I truly knew what causes this, perhaps the inherited condition that was already described in a previous post although it does seem to effect the darker goats more than the lighter. Or is that simply because it is more easily seen? Whatever the cause they do seem to get better on fresh green pasture so that will be interesting to see what happens. I am curious about the possibility of a genetic link- again is it a coat pattern thing or genetics or both? The one black/white doe I was taking care of (that had this issue) has a full sister and brother, neither of which were ever effected. This same doe had triplets and the black/white male has the same exact issues (but not the red/brown/white sister and brother). He is much better though on the copper, selenium, vit E, and OFA supplements. Good luck!
Anne Arrington said:
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