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feeding and protection question

Posted by S. Rhoades on June 21, 2011 at 1:50pm in Goats 101

Feeding question: Does anyone know if goats can eat forsythia (the pretty shrub that has yellow flowers to let you know it is really spring) and it's leaves?

Protection question: I am looking for recommendations... we have a fox that is getting braver.  She has four kits that are getting bigger.  She is eyeing my yearlings for a meal.  She watches me constantly.  We are looking for an animal to put with the goats to keep her away, dissuade her and keep them safe.  All ideas are accepted... ie. pony, horse, donkey, llama, alpaca, larger goat breed, or possibly LGD (but it would be alone for a few hours and need to be trustworthy with the goats).

Please let me know your thoughts.  Thanks in advance you are always helpful!

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Replies

  • ekepuma July 7, 2011 at 10:53am
    You should be able to leave a good LGD with anything it has been properly introduced to for as long as needed. Mine will protect anything I ask her to (including the strawberry patch from birds). We've recently moved and have a neighbor's cat that runs free and helps keep our garden free from rabbits. I introduced the cat a few times and she now has absolutely has no problem with the cat coming and leaving our property. If a stray appeared she would chase it off without me telling her to do it and we have no problem with wildlife what so ever.
  • Cheryl K. Smith June 24, 2011 at 10:24am
    I don't see forsythia in A Guide to Plant Poisoning of Animals in North America, so I would guess that it isn't poisonous.
  • Cheryl K. Smith June 23, 2011 at 11:10pm
    I had a similar experience with my current dog, Marley. I was told not to pay too much attention to him. We put him in with the goats and he eventually started getting aggressive with a fence between him and the goats. He went overboard on protecting. We finally had to let him out of the fenced area and work with him around people. He still terrifies people, but he actually is a big sweetheart once he knows the person is safe. We have to be around, though, unless he knows the person coming onto the property.

    Marin Waddell said:

    I agree with Rachel about the LGD, research is important. We have 3 LGDs. We got the first before we had goats. He's a Great Pyr X and is a yard dog/pet but has several confirmed coyote kills. He keeps the coyotes away and loves the goats but isn't actually bonded to them. He's an incredibly sweet dog and we love him. He'll be 8 this year so we have a young GP from a good breeder and is also a yard dog/pet. She's not bonded to the goats but is protective of the yard so will also keep the coyotes away.

    In between getting those two we got one that we wanted to bond to the goats and we completely messed her up. We got her from a local "breeder" who just happened to have pups from his own dogs, and we followed information from a local sheep breeders association who told us not to pay much attention to the dog and keep her with the goats so she'd bond with them and not us. Bond she did, and she loves them, but she's a fearful dog and we should have spent time with her. Now she won't let us touch her. We literally have to drug her to catch her. Once she's sedated, or even just penned so she can't get away from me, she has no aggression issues, but her behaviour is really not ideal.

    So yeah, do research. And don't listen to people who say not to give the dog any attention. 

    We haven't tried any other guard animals so I can't comment on them. And I don't know anything about forsythia either:-)

  • Cheryl K. Smith June 23, 2011 at 11:04pm

    I have a LGD and highly recommend them. I don't have any of he cougars, coyotes or bears that others who live in the area often see and hear. I have had two so far; the first one was amazing. Both of them (Great Pyrenees and Maremma) have a tendency to roam outside my 3 acres. I have to allow them to stay outside the goat pen during the day. Marley, my maremma, sleeps with the girls at night.

    Look around for LGDS that people have raised with their goats or sheep.

  • Janel Rickey June 22, 2011 at 7:07pm
    Yes I agree also.  Our dog does a great job of taking care of animals during the day, but I worry about the animals at night and especially when the goats move to their permanent home.  Our goats right now are in the back yard until we know they can't fit through the fence.  But you are right it is constant reprimanding her and redirecting her with herding the goats.  Since we got the cows she has really calmed down and is getting to be more trust worthy.  We have looked into some LGD but haven't decided whether we want to invest.  We do have a lot of predators around that I worry about...
  • Deborah Niemann-Boehle June 22, 2011 at 6:57pm
    Rachel is right about herding dogs being different than LGDs. A lot of people talk about "farm collies," which are usually herding dogs. We have an English shepherd, and finally at age 4 I can trust him around the goats and sheep unattended. Prior to that he would have run them to death trying to herd them non-stop. Our LGD is an Anatolian shepherd. And as Marin said, it's very important to get a dog that is socialized. There are unfortunately still a lot of people out there who think that a good LGD is not socialized, which is a terrible idea because they do live around people. I joined an LGD list when I was looking for my dog, and I couldn't believe that one day a person posted a question asking how much sedative to sneak into the dog's food so she could take him to the vet for his rabies shot! Even more shocking were the number of responses she got! I would never have a dog that I couldn't handle -- especially one that can take down a predator.
  • Rachel Whetzel at MigMog Acres June 22, 2011 at 2:21am
    Just to be clear though, an LGD and a herding dog are NOT the same thing. Of course any dog will be a cause to pause to predators, but LGD live with their "family" (your goats, chickens, etc.) in a way that you should not trust a herding dog to do. (it sounds like Janel has an awesome exception to the heeler breed) We have cougar in our area, and even though our LGD doesn't bed down with our goats, and they are shut in for the night, she is very much needed to let cougars know that any "snack" they may try to have on our land won't come easy. She also works at night to keep fox and raccoon away from our chickens.
  • Janel Rickey June 21, 2011 at 10:03pm
    We have a blue heeler/red heeler and she is awesome.. She protects our field and makes sure nothing is around.  She has chased off coyotes, fox and a bear...  We have had a few issues with her trying to herd the goats, but we have been very stern with her and she is really becoming a great dog.  We recently got cows and that has been the challenge, but she is doing amazing now and rarely chases them.  It took a good week of really working with her to break her of that bad habit.  Having all the animals has helped her calm down, yet fulfill her needs as a dog.  She is outside during the day, but sleeps inside at night.  The goats are locked up so she is not needed at night.
  • Marin Waddell June 21, 2011 at 8:51pm

    That makes sense Rachel. I'm so annoyed with myself for not going with what "felt" right as opposed to what others told me to do. I've competed in flyball with my house dogs and trained them in agility, and I've even taught a few obedience classes (I hung around the dog school so much they had me help out:-) so I know better and I really should have gone with my gut and socialized the poor dog with people. 


    Rachel Whetzel said:

    I highly recommend the book Livestock Guardians. It's a book that covers all the kinds of guardians you're talking about here. What to look for, some training tools, etc. It's an EXCELLENT book to give you ideas about how/when to use different types of guardians and choose the fit that is best for your situation.

     

    Re the idea to just "leave them alone" if you get an LGD... the book I read about it said to socialize, but to be sure that your socialization happens WITH your livestock. You go into their area, and play with the dog, not take the dog out. That way, the dog associates you and good times with being in with the animals, and not out. When you're choosing an LGD, (if you're going the puppy route) you should choose a dog that's friendly to you, but isn't the first one in the litter to seek you out. They should be content to lay/play near you, but not need you for attention.

  • Rachel Whetzel at MigMog Acres June 21, 2011 at 6:52pm

    I highly recommend the book Livestock Guardians. It's a book that covers all the kinds of guardians you're talking about here. What to look for, some training tools, etc. It's an EXCELLENT book to give you ideas about how/when to use different types of guardians and choose the fit that is best for your situation.

     

    Re the idea to just "leave them alone" if you get an LGD... the book I read about it said to socialize, but to be sure that your socialization happens WITH your livestock. You go into their area, and play with the dog, not take the dog out. That way, the dog associates you and good times with being in with the animals, and not out. When you're choosing an LGD, (if you're going the puppy route) you should choose a dog that's friendly to you, but isn't the first one in the litter to seek you out. They should be content to lay/play near you, but not need you for attention.

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