Hi---
I have a 5 month old doeling who has developed an udder. I about fell over when I discovered it. After a lot of research, I found that its a legitimate issue that can happen to young, unbred Juniors--esp if they come from a high production milking line (hers is Rosasharn). From what I've read, the best thing is to leave the udder alone and it will reabsorb within a reasonable amount of time. My question is---how long is REASONABLE? And has any one else ever heard of, or experienced this.
Its called "Precocious Udder" and can develop into Mastitis if untreated, and death---but to leave it alone, as long as the udder is soft (hers is), no heat, or lumps. The one testimony/warning I read came from a lady who had 2 out of 3 Juniors die, bc she didn't treat. She's the one who said to wait, but for a reasonable amount of time.
Thanks so much,
Jill
Replies
I have the same theory, so we shall see! Only time will tell!
Margaret Langley said:
Thanks for clearing me up on that! It does sound like you probably are not spreading your hormones around. Great that you are so careful. I would guess that since unlike the other lady since you only have one it could have been caused by any of numerous things including just a predisposition to precocious udder.
Deborah, thanks for that extra info, I kind of had a feeling that any of the hormones could potentially cause a problem. I don't know if it seems logical but to me it seems that since a balance of hormones is so vital that any of them could through off that balance and cause abnormal conditions.
Interesting that it seems to be more prevalent in the larger breeds. I have a theory about that and wonder if any one has views on my theory. Do you think that it is possible that it could be more common with the full size goats because of the many more years of intensive breeding for heavy milk production? And that the development of the NDs being so much newer that they just have not reached a point were it has become as prevalent? Perhaps after more years of our breeding for high milk production we may see more and more of this?
I hope that makes some since. I am really tired and know what I am thinking, just hope I expressed it in a that relates what I mean!
I just looked in Goat Medicine, and there is info in there on "inappropriate lactation syndrome" and inducing lactation in non-pregnant goats, which is done with estrogen, progesterone, prolactin, and corticosteroids. There are a number of reasons that goats can naturally wind up with a precocious udder, including genetics, but it is also entirely possible to cause the whole thing with hormones.
The breeder who said that most of her does have precocious udders is probably dealing goats that have a genetic predisposition towards that. In my completely non-scientific summary of discussions I've had with other breeders, it seems that it's a more common problem with standard goats.
Oh Margaret, it seems as if I need to apologize, in that I may have misled you...First, the cream I use is Progesterone...the studies/reports I've read are based on Estrogen...as was the blog post Deborah posted.
Also...I apply the cream at night...just BEFORE going to bed...so, any residue would have been fully absorbed by morning. I put on clean clothes when I get up and I'm fastidious about washing my hands...especially before milking---which is the first chore I do in the morning. Since I milk anywhere from 4-6 does every morning, and am conscientious to have clean hands with EACH doe, by the time I even get around to petting and handling the juniors----(or babies, who've been up all night), there'd be no way to pass on any hormonal residue to the goats....or any of our pets.
Please know I thank you so very, very much for your concern and really, truly appreciate all the information I read on this forum...as well as your valuable input. And, while I'm in agreement of a hormonal influence for the lady that had all 5 of her Juniors forms Precocious Udder---there were other posts, from other people who have encountered the issue--that may not have been from outside hormonal exposure. In fact, I asked around to some of the breeders I've purchased some of my goats from...and they've either known of other breeders or personally had a goat(s) w/ a Precocious Udder (and are either in their child-bearing years or pre-menopausal---hence no need for hormonal therapy)....
So, while it seems to be unusual---it isn't uncommon...and like many of the encounters we have with these wonderful creatures, there's always something new to make our lives exciting.
Big blessings to you....
OMG! Super see how throwing out ideas can get you places. That could be what has happened. Be extra careful and best to you!
That's very interesting---and I'm guessing there is something along that line as well. However, the following post from that thread---another breeder states, "Virtually all my does are precocious..."
That just doesn't sound right to me....unless, as you say, its a hormone-in-the-feed thing....
We don't use medicated feed for our milkers...but a high-quality mix for does....
Just wondering if you've ever come across it in younger stock. Thanks though, for all the input.
Its crazy how easily hormone cream, birth control pills, etc can effect so many other areas...and can even leech into our lakes or other waterways.
I'm glad Margaret mentioned that...bc I am 57...and do use a compounded natural hormone cream---progesterone....but only at bedtime...and try to always wash my hands...point taken well. Thank you.
Great article, thanks a bunch Deborah! Now, I know I am not the only one that wishes we knew if those poor goats had been exposed to something like that! It would be so nice to know what caused such a tragedy!
Exactly, actually what I was thinking about was a situation with a male that was using hormones and the contact with his little girl had started menstrual cycles and she was like 5or6. Can't remember it's been a long time but caused something with the little boy also. Can't remember what. Anyways, yea same deal and you are so right, I totally forgot about how many women use those and that could be a serious problem to a lot of herds.
Maybe we should remember to mention that occasionally as a warning to people. Thanks for bringing that up, it is a very interesting point. Not only us midlife girls need to remember this but the birth control has changed so much over the years that even some of our younger ladies may need to be aware of how what they use could have effects if it can be shed through the skin. At any rate, you know those creams your talking about would be a real threat!
Yep, I had a big old wether at my sisters just a sucking on my finger yesterday! Had to go over cause she got her 10 new goats. Now she has 63 myotonics!
Whoa, Margaret! I JUST read an article tonight about how women using estrogen cream on their hands was causing dogs to start acting hormonal! The dogs were licking it off the owner's hands and absorbing it into their systems.
http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/10/25/when-hormone-creams-expose...
Even male dogs were growing breast tissue!
If those were bottle babies, you know how they love to suck on people's fingers!
Absolutely! There is no way something like that is a coincidence. Nor genetic. Even if they had been same litter, full sisters that just should not have happened. I agree with Deb.
Though something else in food or even exposed to elsewhere on a farm might possibly be at fault, I believe to cause this it would probably have to be hormonal. It could very well be food related with the stuff they are doing these days. That would likely be a first guess with most of us, but I have to wonder about something else.
There are some hormonal treatments that humans use that can cause premature physical changes in children and adolescents. They can be absorbed by the kids through skin contact. I can't help but wonder if someone on that farm might have been using something like that and did not realize that they could have been transferring it to the does in this manner. Just a thought!
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