Well, I keep my jumbo buck Miyagi 2 fences away from the does with an empty pasture in between. Unfortunately I bought a Houdini Nigerian doe who somehow got through all these fences and into the buck pasture. I hand bred her to one of my registered Nigerian bucks but about a month later I got home and found her in the buck pen. I prayed that she was pregnant already when she got in there but no dice. When she did not kid with the rest of the group I knew that her visit to the buck pasture would have done it. Sure enough, she got bred by Miyagi, the mini-sized buck.
Hers and my best efforts could not get her single big buck kid out. We just got home from our second emergency C Section sired by Miyagi. I know it's his kid because it had bright blue eyes.
So...Miyagi or his balls have got to go. If I can't get him sold promptly I will castrate him I guess because he is just too much of a liability with all these little does.
Vet said I should not breed this doe again. I know I've asked this question on this forum before...but I can't really remember the discussion. Has anyone bred a doe again and had successful birth after a C Section? I don't feel like it was the doe's fault. She is a normal sized Nigerian who was bred to a 26" tall beast of a buck & had a single buck kid. She is about 5 years old and I don't know how many freshenings because she is new to me
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Thank you, Juliana, for your reply. I'm glad to know you've found it fairly easy to sell your 25/75 kids. Do you think there might be any problems with people breeding them to bucks that are too big? Would a 25/75 doe most likely be too small to breed to anything but a Nigerian buck?
I know people with Nigies and full sized goats who don't seem to have a problem (my MiniMancha came from a breeder who breeds Nigies, Minis, and full sized LaManchas), but I think it really depends on the individual circumstances. I wouldn't want a larger buck simply because I know a few of my does are so bad about getting out despite our best efforts. Or like Deborah's LaMancha buck who was an escape artist. I think a lot of factors probably go into whether or not it can be done without accidents, or maybe accidents are inevitable but we just don't hear about them?
It's my understanding that the doe determines the number of kids via the number of eggs she provides. I would guess that the size is what is coming from him, since it's happened twice with two different does. If it were only once I might consider it a fluke. Either way, I think I would be doing the same thing as you if I were in your shoes.
Well, for what it's worth, my 25/75 minis have always sold just fine but my minis are not MDGA registered, and just go to the backyard pet or backyard milker type homes. I don't know who your target buyers are for that. Around here, unregistered, $150-$200 range goats sell easier than the higher end registered ones.
I honestly hope I wind up castrating Miyagi and keeping him as the mascot. I am really attached to him...he is going to be hard to sell because I'm not going to lie to anyone about him, that he's caused C Sections or that he beat the crap out of me last year when he was in rut. If it weren't for pressure from my husband not to keep a useless wether around I wouldn't even consider selling him, I'd just castrate him and keep him. Both because I am a big sap where he is concerned and because he is just not an easy goat to place...I definitely don't want to think about him winding up being used as someone's rodeo goat or some of the other terrible things that happen around here. I also don't want him to get resold and wind up hurting someone although I guess the fact is that bucks can be dangerous and you ought to have some common sense if you are going to buy one...
I know I have heard of mini bucks being bred to Nigerians by accident (or on purpose) and having successful births. For that matter, I bred Miyagi to a doe Cherry's size when he was 4 months old and I didn't know any better and she delivered uneventful if slightly large twins. Miyagi's other C Section was the result of him breaking out and breeding a 5 month old Nigerian doe which might have been a disaster if even a regular buck had done it...I don't know if he is prone to throwing singles or maybe he just throws bigger than he is or if it was just bad luck...so I don't know if it is worth choosing not to keep a larger buck on your property. I will say for me it's not worth it and I will never do it again (keep bigger than a Nigerian buck with a herd of mostly Nigerian does)
I tell you what though, when I saw those feet and she pushed and pushed and pushed and nothing was happening I thought "oh no!! It's truffle all over again!!" Big feet not budging an inch :(
Awe...she's cute! :) I'm sorry to hear about the choice you have to make Miyagi, but it seems very wise to do something. I'm in the position where I want to keep a mini-Nubian buckling here, but it does scare me. I was firmly planning exactly that, but after reading this...now I'm not sure again.
I don't know what to do because if I only keep the Nigerian bucks, I would end up with a lot of 25/75 Minis. That doesn't seem like something that would sell easily?? We could use all of their offspring for meat, but that's really hard to do with does, at least for me.
Hard decisions all around, I guess...
Oh, and I do have a friend who has bred does following c-sections and had successful births. I'd give her a second chance if it were me, given the circumstances.
Best wishes to you and your herd! :)
Here is my dear little Cherry. She is not the friendliest goat, I've not had much of a relationship with her before now. But we have bonded over this. Bless her heart, when I left her to wash up to try and reach in there and pull the kid, she was calling out to me not to leave her. She is in the barn and has been following me around while I do chores, in the past she would go the other way. So we are friends now, I guess.
I don't know if I'll ever have the nerve to breed her again. She's a pretty hardy, sturdy little goat that I wouldn't mind having in my herd...she might be tough to place as a pet since she tends to avoid people but I've always thought she could be won over with food pretty quickly.
I'm so sorry. I have a couple of escape artists does as well. If there is any possible way, they find it. I'm going to have to DNA test Brownie's kids, if they are does, because she also broke out of her enclosure and into the buck fence, so there are two possible sires. I've had to use lutalyse before, too, but didn't want/need to use it with Brownie. I don't like messing around with hormones, but sometimes it's unavoidable.
Also, there is a period of time after castration (I want to say a month?) while males can still be fertile.
Well this time, I have to say it's not really Miyagi's fault. Usually it would be him escaping and getting the does but I have gotten better at containing him. It took me a few months to witness this doe in the act of escaping and prior to that I just didn't have a clue how she was getting out. Almost all of my fences are new this year, all in good repair, and this particular doe would be in another pasture than where I put her over and over and over.
Regardless, though, I feel it is too much of a liability to keep him here now that he has sired two C Sections. Presentation was normal on both, just kid was too big to get out. I loved breeding him to the La Manchas and they had his kids with no problem...
I did not have good luck with the burdizzo. My vet quoted me $75 to castrate Miyagi and frankly I'd rather pay that and know they're GONE and no way he could still be fertile!! And not for nothing, but I don't know how you guys restrained a full La Mancha buck for burdizzo castration, I am sitting here thinking there is no way anyone could hold Miyagi still for that, he is incredibly strong.
I wish I knew more about this doe, this is the first year I've had her, and unfortunately the lady I bought her from was a shyster and lied about everything so I couldn't even ask her more about this doe. So I have no idea what her past deliveries have been like.
Thank goodness the on call vet was close by and was able to meet me at the clinic in the amount of time it took me to get her there.
Oh! So sorry, Juliana! I castrated my la mancha buck because he kept jumping a 4.5-foot AND a 5-foot high fence and getting in with my ND does. (Yes, there were two fences between him and the does.) I got lutalyse from the vet and after giving it to a does following TWO of his unauthorized visits, I came to the same conclusion as you. That's actually when I bought the burdizzo because I didn't want to pay $100 to the vet to castrate him.
We did have a 7-year-old doe have a c-section one year and then have a normal birth the following year. She had never had a problem before that. Previous c-section is not a reason to not breed a goat again. However, previous difficulty giving birth is a great reason to never breed a goat again. I alway say that I have a two strikes rule, but I broke that with Giselle, and this year she had a c-section. I kept making excuses for her kidding problems because she is one of my favorite milk goats. Like I said when I took her in -- that's what I get for breaking my own rule! We had to provide serious assistance with three of her births in the past, so it was not a very big surprise when she had this jumbo buck that wouldn't fit.