Opinions Requested

[Kare]

Hello Everyone,

I am getting back into goats and I have a question. =)  After my research this summer, I had decided to get Oberhaslis and Nigerian Dwarfs.  Obers because I thought my family would like their milk the best, but I've never tasted it.  I also like the idea that they are a heritage breed and could be a packing/cart goat...

Yesterday I drove a few hours away to taste my first Nigerian milk.  I was very skeptical because everyone says their type of goat gives the best milk.  WOW!  It was so creamy and delicious and no hint of goatiness...  I have no doubt my family will like it.

So, I'm considering just getting the Nigerians now.  They cost less to keep, they are closer for me to drive to, I can take my little car instead of the big suburban and save gas... etc.  

However, I just sent in a $50 deposit for an Ober.  Should I lose the deposit and save $200 in gas and $ in monthly feeding costs?  

Or is it good to have a bigger goat for the amount of milk they give?

Will I develop a reputation among goat breeders if I lose my deposit?

I know this is just opinion, but I would love yours!

Thanks so much,

Kare

[N M]

You know, I am no expert, but I have heard two things. One is that you have to be careful when breeding polled animals, and shouldn't breed two polled animals. Also, I've been informed by a couple of different breeders that blue eyes are usually not the best stock. I don't know for sure if it's true, but it's worth researching.

[Kare]

Thank you everyone. I took your advice and contacted her right away (a month ago) and you are right, she wasn't upset. I have chosen my foundation does and they should be arriving in the next month. Now I need to find a polled, blue-eyed buck with lots of * and MCH in his pedigree and I'm set to go! =)

Laura, that is incredible that your brother fed 7 smaller animals for the same cost as 2 large goats! Wow! Can I put that on my website???

Thanks again for the feedback!

Kare

[Danielle Besley]

I can vouch for the taste of the ND milk. My first Doe kidded on 9/3/10 and I had to hand milk her right away because the buckling would not nurse. Anyway, I gave him all of the milk for the first two weeks and then decided to try it myself. I have been drinking raw cows milk my whole life so was a little nervous about the taste but it was awesome. It reminds me of melted vanilla ice cream, just not as sweet. The way the cream clings to the side of the jars, you just want to scoop it out and eat it :)

[Kare]

Thank you so much for your response. This is very helpful!

Deborah Niemann-Boehle said:

If you tell the breeder that you don't want the oberhasli now, he/she shouldn't get upset. People get upset when you just disappear without another word. THAT is annoying. If you just say that you changed your mind, that's not a big deal, IMO.

I have both Nigerians and la manchas, and I will tell you that the NDs have the best milk. I tried to sneak the LM milk into my family's diet -- or even make cheese with it -- and it's not as good. I get caught! My kids don't like it at all. I can mix a little LM milk with ND, and it's okay, but most LM milk gets used for soap and feeding pigs. Milk-fed pork is really delicious, so it's the main reason I still have LMs, but if I can't get them pregnant with my ND bucks, I'm going to get rid of them. I really don't know how people have both, because it's very hard to keep a standard buck penned. I finally castrated mine after he got in with my ND does twice. I felt bad, but it wasn't worth a doe possibly dieing while trying to give birth to a LM kid. He went over TWO fences to get to the does.

As to whether or not to get a ND or a big goat -- it really depends on whether you want lots of fluid milk or if cheese is your main reason for having goats. If you want two or three gallons of milk a day, as well as wethers for meat, I'd say go with a saanen! But if you want to make cheese, go with NDs. Your cheese yield is 2X as much with ND milk. We know their butterfat is higher, but there must be more to it that we just don't know yet. If you have big goats, you will probably have to sell wethers for meat or eat them yourself. If you have NDs, you can sell wethers for pets. I would not recommend an oberhasli for milk production or cheese, because they have the lowest of the big breeds, and their butterfat is not high. This info is available on the ADGA website.

As for heritage breeds, actually every goat breed in this country would probably qualify as heritage. Goats have not been exploited in the US like cattle, poultry, and pigs. NDs have been on ALBC's list for at least the eight years that I've had them. They're actually in the same spot as oberhasli. None of the other big dairy breeds are listed because they're not in danger of extinction, but they're still mostly unchanged from when they first came to this country. There aren't any "modern" breeds of goats.

If you're interesting in carting and packing, check out the Working Goat group right here. There is a link to it in the right-hand column of the home page. WG4 has a team of four goats that she's trained to pull a cart together and in a team of two.

There are only two groups of people for whom I would not recommend NDs -- those who want to use wethers for meat and those who want a couple gallons of milk every day. In both of those cases, I'd go for big goats. We've butchered some of our Shetland sheep wethers, which are small like ND goats, and we get about 25 pounds hanging weight from a yearling. It's hardly worth the cost of processing, but I can't keep wethers, and they don't sell very well. You can get a couple gallons of milk every day from Nigerians -- we do -- but you have to milk more goats. We have NDs because we want to be self-sufficient and produce all of our own dairy products, and the NDs are just a much better choice for making cheese. There are even several commercial farmstead cheese operations in this country that have NDs exclusively, because their milk is so good for making cheese.

Good luck with your decision!

[Deborah Niemann-Boehle]

If you tell the breeder that you don't want the oberhasli now, he/she shouldn't get upset. People get upset when you just disappear without another word. THAT is annoying. If you just say that you changed your mind, that's not a big deal, IMO.

I have both Nigerians and la manchas, and I will tell you that the NDs have the best milk. I tried to sneak the LM milk into my family's diet -- or even make cheese with it -- and it's not as good. I get caught! My kids don't like it at all. I can mix a little LM milk with ND, and it's okay, but most LM milk gets used for soap and feeding pigs. Milk-fed pork is really delicious, so it's the main reason I still have LMs, but if I can't get them pregnant with my ND bucks, I'm going to get rid of them. I really don't know how people have both, because it's very hard to keep a standard buck penned. I finally castrated mine after he got in with my ND does twice. I felt bad, but it wasn't worth a doe possibly dieing while trying to give birth to a LM kid. He went over TWO fences to get to the does.

As to whether or not to get a ND or a big goat -- it really depends on whether you want lots of fluid milk or if cheese is your main reason for having goats. If you want two or three gallons of milk a day, as well as wethers for meat, I'd say go with a saanen! But if you want to make cheese, go with NDs. Your cheese yield is 2X as much with ND milk. We know their butterfat is higher, but there must be more to it that we just don't know yet. If you have big goats, you will probably have to sell wethers for meat or eat them yourself. If you have NDs, you can sell wethers for pets. I would not recommend an oberhasli for milk production or cheese, because they have the lowest of the big breeds, and their butterfat is not high. This info is available on the ADGA website.

As for heritage breeds, actually every goat breed in this country would probably qualify as heritage. Goats have not been exploited in the US like cattle, poultry, and pigs. NDs have been on ALBC's list for at least the eight years that I've had them. They're actually in the same spot as oberhasli. None of the other big dairy breeds are listed because they're not in danger of extinction, but they're still mostly unchanged from when they first came to this country. There aren't any "modern" breeds of goats.

If you're interesting in carting and packing, check out the Working Goat group right here. There is a link to it in the right-hand column of the home page. WG4 has a team of four goats that she's trained to pull a cart together and in a team of two.

There are only two groups of people for whom I would not recommend NDs -- those who want to use wethers for meat and those who want a couple gallons of milk every day. In both of those cases, I'd go for big goats. We've butchered some of our Shetland sheep wethers, which are small like ND goats, and we get about 25 pounds hanging weight from a yearling. It's hardly worth the cost of processing, but I can't keep wethers, and they don't sell very well. You can get a couple gallons of milk every day from Nigerians -- we do -- but you have to milk more goats. We have NDs because we want to be self-sufficient and produce all of our own dairy products, and the NDs are just a much better choice for making cheese. There are even several commercial farmstead cheese operations in this country that have NDs exclusively, because their milk is so good for making cheese.

Good luck with your decision!