Found out that a goat that I had staying with my herd for breeding wo stayed a month and a half and went home 11 days ago is dying from listeria today. So of course her herd owner and I are on alert for symptoms in our other goats.
I have a few question for those who have dealt with listeria.
Did you loose more than one goat in an outbreak?
How many days apart were the cases.
Did you every get a good idea of what the cause was?
Thanks for any other info too.
Replies
Listeria is "everywhere," but most often found in spoiled feeds, such as silage. The incubation period is very short, so it's unlikely that the buck got it at your farm. This post is kind of old now, so you've probably already come to the conclusion that it's unlikely that another goat will get it. You don't usually hear of more than one animal on a farm getting it. One thing to consider, though, is that listeriosis has symtpoms that can also manifest in a goat with meningeal worm, so unless she had a necropsy, it may not have been listeriosis. I had a goat get it close to ten years ago, but we rushed her to U of I at the first symptom, and she fully recovered. We have never had a case since then.
Hi Joan,
I had my chiropractor at the farm to fix my boys after castration and so had her discuss this for THAT couple of days. I feed 2 types of hay - a 2nd cut grass hay and a 2nd cut grass hay with little bit of alfalfa. She encouraged me - for those couple warm days - to feed only the grass hay, and keep additives on the light side. I don't feed a lot of grain right now anyway but she wanted it even lighter just for a couple days.
I doesn't sound like you had any silage, mouldy hay, or bad stuff lying around - not that you would. So that is why to me it sounded like predisposition. OR something she had lurking.
Now that we are back to cold - my goats are being fed a little bit of BOSS, a tiny bit of oat grouts, a little bit of diamond V yeast xp green, and the free feed hay and of course the kelp, the baking soda, and the goat minerals. She encouraged me to start feeding Chaffhaye soon and gave the amount my girls were needing. Soon - they will also get a little bit of organic soy free goat which they tested for over the Green Mountain organic stuff. Less processed so I was glad although they like both.
I believe in kinesiology and she has been working with my various animals for 15 years so I'm comfortable with her. So I had her test each goat for their needs. This is not what is necessary. You have more goat knowledge than I have. But I'm obsessive about my guys as I learn and so it makes me happy to pay her to examine each animal physically and via her muscle testing in kinesiology. I knew my weak girl was weaker but she gave me a feel for where her weakness lay. And although she is a homeopath - she felt in the weak girls case- herbs would be best. New area for me!
I wonder what the incubation period for Listeriosis is - that could tell the owner and you when this might have gotten started. IE. This summer - I was feeling just fine and I guess fighting off Tick Borne Disease until the super high heat couple days when it weakened me and I succumbed. I was stupid and kept fencing in the heat! I should have known something was amiss because after years of never being susceptible to poison ivy - I got it during the spring. After being treated with homeopathy and a little catsclaw - not only did the tick borne illness abate but I didn't get any poison ivy again despite my goats eating it and having it all over themselves and of course - they are in my lap and arms all the time.
Anyway - Liz also knows this chiropractor and if you wanted a barn call - you could set that up I think - don't know if she is taking new patients but one can try. Or email me privately and I'll give you her contact info.
Good luck with it all!
Judy
Judy,
I have also noticed that the weaker more stressed animals are the ones that have gotten listeriosis in the cases that I have known and think that is a big factor in listeriosis. The temperature swings we are having are very challenging and we can't do much about the weather except to try not to add other stresses to our goats and support then as we can.
I agree many people do not read their animals well, and goats like other prey animals try to hide weakness and make it a bit more difficult.
I am not so sure that I would agree that unless animals are unbalanced they would not have any trouble. Animal condition matters very much, but exposure to disease matters too. Sometimes very healthy and unstressed animals will succumb to a viral or bacterial challenge especially if the challenge is a novel one.
I am curious what would be considered an easy light diet for a goat. Mine are not lactating at the moment and I feed hay, minerals and some kelp and will start a little grain now that they are far along in their pregnancies. Do you have any other ideas of things to add to goats diets that was recommended to you that would be good?
Hi Joan - Just my holistic type of thinking here:
I read all the info on Listeriosis and have to say - I think it comes down to weaker animal - as usual. If you look at the "causes" - many of these thing like temp fluctuations have been happening in a big way around here! Very difficult on healthy animals and even worse for those who are weak individuals. A lot of people in my opinion don't really know which of their animals are weak or strong if they look mostly OK and don't present with big symptoms.
When the article said it could be contagious because it was a bacteria - but that the bacteria is everywhere - then it makes me think of hoof rot in a way. Not to downplay this- it is serious and as you know - Listeria can kill. But bacteria for hoofrot and listeria is in a lot of soils and some food stuffs but unless your animals are unbalanced - they don't have any troubles.
Same with fleas - a healthy animal is not a host for an explosion of fleas. They might pick up one out in the environment but it doesn't set up home. If there are fleas - something else is going in - old weak dog, illness, bad diet....
So - I won't be at the goat meeting on Sunday - between being sick myself and another issue - I am sorry I'll miss it but what I'd say at the meeting is the same thing. One needs to focus on the general health and strength of all their animals and as you know - having a doe come to a new place to be bred is a stress on her. If she was weak in the first place (likely) - and then stressed and then we had those weird cold to warm spells - it just spells problems.
My local chiropractor treats dogs, horses, my goats other animals and humans and she warned me that this winter has seen a lot of colic in horse, digestive upsets in dogs and wanted me to go easy and light in my goats diet during that recent warm spell. It is the mad swings - not the actual temperature.
As we read a lot in holistic medicine - It Is The Terrain (of the animal) - Not the Germ.
Hope this helps. I'm sure you feel horrible having her get sick after being with you but you don't know which place she got the bacteria, how weak she was before, etc. I have 1 weaker doe and while she is getting stronger over time - she is not one I'd put through pregnancy at this time - it would be just too difficult for her body. She will be getting some of Kats herbs soon to help her get even stronger. Ironically - her sister is my strongest goat and the queen.
Judy
Here's another thread about it on a different forum. I suggest a search here too, because Deb may have already shared some good info and answers to your questions here. http://www.thegoatspot.net/forum/f186/polio-listeriosis-signs-treat...
I wish I had some good advice for you.
Here's something I found on line. I'll see if Deb's book has any good information, but it might take me a day or two, because I'm not where I can read it. http://www.cfsph.iastate.edu/FastFacts/pdfs/listeriosis_F.PDF