Nigerian Dwarf Dairy Goats

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Okay, folks, I finally got a good urine sample from Capri.  The test strip is the darkest it can be or sure looks like it.  I have the Propylene Glycol that I picked up with the strips.  Later I will be talking to the vet though who knows how soon since he is in the field so much and likely starts late since he works late.\

What would be the dosage for our ND girls?  I have a small bottle(500 ml) since I knew I would in no way need a full gallon.  Truthfully, I hoped to not need it at all but this is where we are.

Except for being uncomfortable, all seems normal otherwise except the test strip.

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Glenna just want to let you know I am here and aware of your situation, but will need to check on the answers...can hardly see right now to even type...broke glasses...on way to take care of it and will come back to research this...no experience... will do asap...hopefully you will get a chime in soon, if not, I will get back with you in a while. If you need to you could check Fiasco site if you have time...remember doses will be for large goats on there. Back ASAP!

When I picked up the supplies, the gal told me the dosage for cattle and that doctor doubled it for goats. ???  So, before I do anything, I want to be sure it's the right amount for our little girls.  I'll be calling for dosage but who knows when he will get back to me.  Thank you for the response and any answers you might find.

Talked with vet.  With just one test so far, give her rolled corn now and tonight and re-test in morning.  If still needed, give one oz. twice a day.  On my way home now to give her the first rolled corn (half r.c. and half reg. feed).

Here is a link to the page on the fiasco page where the dosage etc. is and I would say that 1- 2 ozs. would be appropriate based on her info! If you want to check it out just go to the link and scan down until you see the pro. gly. . there is another link she has there that I thought you may want to check out to MORE about Ketosis! http://fiascofarm.com/goats/medications-2.htm keep us informed on how things are going!  I would love to know what is up with the corn instead of the pro. gly. since I have no experience with this I have no idea what the point of feeding her the corn is, hmm! Very curious!

The corn is to get the protein and energy in her faster.  I suspect that part was because I told him she (all of them actually) was not eating the pellets in their Dairy 16 whereas she had before.  It's been that way for the past month since I put them back on that after just goat feed after Capri was not being milked.  The other two had always been on Alber's Goat Feed until this past month.  I would think the two younger ones would wolf it down as they did when they got into mom's feed before.  This is odd since they had previously emptied their feeders but are picking around them now, same amounts, but all three, and do the same with goat feed now as well when I tried that!  They have alfalfa pellets and local grass hay available all the time (just as always) so the alfalfa pellets helped but he wanted that extra boost and to wait until morning and do another test since this is the only one that was done.  You all said they were spoiled but this is over the line.  Looks like there is a possibility I might be mixing my feed one day to ensure they are getting what they need *and* eating it.

(Not sure how good those pellets are for the hens, but they have been getting them so they might get some use before composting into the ground.)

Not familiar with what the dairy 16 is! So are you going to change goat feed now or what? I am still surprised that he wouldn't want her to have something else, even though there was only one test! I would have thought even one test would require something right away. Seems I was under the impression this was a lot more urgent than that. I really need to study up on this one some more. I will be so glad when Debs book is out this year!

The fiasco site did say that you can also use molasses or karo in an emergency! I thought that any indication of ketosis was an emergency requiring immediate treatment or it was life threatening! Guess maybe it isn't as dangerous as I thought!

It *is* dangerous which is why I wanted to test her.  A friend may offer much more insight into this having just been through it.  I wasn't able to catch a sample this morning before I left but did for Summer and she is just as dark.  Either the test strips are bad, I'm not doing it right, or there is a serious lacking in their diet which I cannot imaging.  The Dairy 16 was recommended to me by another goat owner (milking) and is apparently used by many dairy goat owners.  It has much the same stuff in it as my friend who mixes her own who had only the one doe with the problem.  We are all concerned they are not eating the pellet part of the feed; they have not since I switched to it a month or so ago from the Alber's Goat Feed.  I'm so seriously thinking about mixing my own so I know exactly what is it in and what percentages, my friend does and has a great herd and great milk and only once has had a problem (as far as I know).  I almost got some molasses from the feed store when I went out earlier this week - perhaps I should?

The feed store owner and the vet were both concerned about the lack of eating the pellets because "that is where the protein is." (???)

I know you are really concerned. I would be too!

It seems to me that gathering all the proper ingredients and mixing your own for so few goats will be an extreme to have to go to! Do you not have access to something that is premixed that you can be sure works, because a lot of people already use it! Like purina goat chow or that Dumor that Deb and I just swapped to? Mine really love it and it is $4 a bag less at my TSC than the goat chow was. If it's consistency is any indication, I would think that it would work real good for this too! Because it is very sticky with molasses. I have noticed that it sticks so much that I have to kind of break it up with the scoop! Kinda like when your sugar clumps up in the canister, you know? The goat chow never did that and when I first bought it, it seemed more molasses colored than the goat chow. I have had no problem getting them to eat this and I cannot imagine that any of them would! If you have a TSC around then you should be able to get it if you wanted! If you get molasses...get black strap... preferably unsulfered! But you probably already knew that! I got mine at walmart...but they did not have unsulfered! I am sure that would be better than Karo! The Karo is a good picker upper but the molasses has really good for you stuff in it!

Are you sure that he wanted the corn for protein?

I ask because this condition in people is from having a diet too high in protein and too low in carbs. If you remember the Atkins diet, this is the state that the original diet put you in. It is dangerous because it changes the pH of the blood. It is also dangerous, in people at least, because it will cause the kidneys to shut down if going unchecked for too long.

Sorry the nurse in me being curious.

Glenna, if you are concerned about waiting to do anything for her, I think what I would do is give her either the 1 part karo 2 part molasses mix that fiasco recommends or "magic" which is 1 part karo 2 part molasses 1 part corn oil mix that is explained along with dosage and a lot of other pertinent info on this page: 

http://www.goatworld.com/articles/pregnancy/pregnancytoxemia.shtml 

I don't know the reason for the oil...wish I did! But this piece does mention the corn, fresh alfalfa hay or a soybean supplement. And does stress making sure she is urinating even if you need to use a mild diuretic like cranberry juice!

Just a few highlights there! Would be good for you to read this one along with the Fiasco and maybe Onion Creek would have some good info,they usually do.

I'm traveling this week, so don't have access to all the books I have at home -- or the story I'm putting in the book about a goat with ketosis. From what I remember, her vet recommended something like Nutridrench immediately, daily until her goat kidded. It usually happens to does that are over-conditioned.

Corn is quite low in protein and high in carbs/sugar/fat, so maybe your vet is thinking it is less drastic than using something like Nutridrench in case she has a mild case?

My mind is going a dozen different directions about this and this is a bad time of year for me anyway (it was March 29th when my son died) so my concentration is not the best.  I'll try to answer a couple of things brought up here.  The corn is for energy and protein.  For some reason, vet seemed to think the corn would change the readings.  Maybe I should take urine in the middle of the day or even late morning; maybe first in the morning was not the best idea, maybe that is why the vet wanted another reading before staring the Propylene Glycol.  I found out today there were more factors in my friend's goat's situation and her vet diagnosed based on physical activity rather than a test.  While it doesn't help her sweet girl, it makes me feel a bit less worried though I'm not certain I can be at this point.  I'm just a mess.  Two weeks from now I will laugh at all of this paranoia I am having.  All three girls are acting normally and having a good time when I let them out in the yard.  And the youngest is being a real jerk to her mom and sister!  She knows something is up and seems to be quite jealous as well as a brat.

I'll try to post something coherent tomorrow or Saturday, promise.

After my friend's suggestion today, I am not shutting Capri in the kidding stall (which has bothered me) but leaving the door open.  She is laying in there, Summer is under the new sleeping bench, and Ginger is on top of it.  All look happy with their bed decisions.

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