Deborah,
I saw an old post of yours where you are talking about feeding kelp free choice. I have a horse who may or may not have a htyroid problem and I have read up on kelp to possibly help him and one thing I kept seeing in the horse info was never to feed it free choice because they could and would overdo the iodine.
Was curious if you have ever seen anything indicating goats would do that? I know goats can tolerate a lot that horses can't, so I guess I am wondering if they can tolerate it or are just smarter than horses and don't over indulge?
Thanks
Replies
Here are a bunch of studies on the use of COWP for control of the barberpole worm, including studies where it was given to sheep:
http://www.sheepandgoat.com/ACSRPC/Resources/COWP.html
How often you use COWP would depend upon your situation. You shouldn't use it if you don't need it. We give it to does and bucks about every 3-4 months. Everyone gets their first dose around weaning time. Doelings that we keep are never weaned, so we usually give them their first dose around 6-9 months or earlier if they need it.
I use the kelp free choice. They love it! I was wondering how often you give the COWP? I live in New England, and need to suplement both copper and selenium. I have given the COWP top dressed to two of my goats that had "fish tails" about two weeks ago. Just not sure about everyone else. Do wethers need it as well?
She apparently mixes it with D.E. Do you recommend that or should it be straight copper oxide in a feeder?
We give the copper oxide wire particles to our goats because we have issues with copper deficiency, and the COWP basically does the same thing. Copper oxide is actually safer than copper sulfate because it is not absorbed as quickly so the chances of toxicity are much, much lower. I have actually not seen any published studies that showed any cases of toxicity with copper oxide. All of the published cases of toxicity have been with copper sulfate.
Not sure if this means anything at this point but the kelp I purchase is from Canada and is Kelp Meal for $59 (25 kgs or 55 lbs). One of our local goat people (full size goats) hosts and animal feed buying club with deliveries every other month. My girls love their kelp, especially when I freshen it. They are so funny, they may seem to not touch it for days and see me stir it or add to it and they fight over it for a few minutes!
Currently, I have three feeders, one with kelp, one with minerals, and one with baking soda.
When I went back to my email to find out about the kelp, I came across this in one of her emails:
"The book I have that's so useful is "Natural Goat Care" by Pat Coleby. We used her recipe for copper sulfate to remove worms, added in diatomaceous earth mixed 1:4 with free choice kelp and wow, they are pooping twice as much and the consistency is completely different. Seems to be working well. "
Does anyone use the copper sulfate with the d.e. for deworming? I have coated apples with d.e. and not done much else along those lines but will be getting fecals done in the next month or so to see how things are going along that line.
It probably took about a month for then to slow down, but that would probably vary based upon how much they needed the iodine and other micronutrients.
Debbie Lynn said:
I just put it in a new mineral feeder from the beginning. You could start with t a little in there in the beginning if you want, but I don't think you usually have to worry about things that are being offered individually and free choice. If they are locked into a milk stand and have no choice but to eat what is in front of them, I think you can wind up with problems. But when they have the option to walk away, the odds of them overconsuming something are pretty slim. This is also why it is not a good idea to mix things -- like kelp with minerals -- because they could overconsume one thing while trying to get enough of something else in the mix. However it seems that the opposite is usually true -- they underconsume the mix to avoid toxicity of something. This is why in a selenium or copper deficient situation the goats don't eat enough of the mineral to get as much selenium or copper as they need. If they did, they'd be overdosing on other minerals.
Kirsten Lowe said:
I have a question about giving kelp for the first time. Is this something I sould add slowly to their diet, or can I set up a free choice feeder straight away? My goats have never had kelp before, but I want to start offering it to them.
Deborah Niemann-Boehle said:
Thanks, "Leaky"LOL I really appreciate you giving me that price for comparison. So the 16.25 for 3 lbs. from Jeffers is high, huh? What about 3 lbs. of ammonium chloride for 6.95 does that sound average. I did find that at Jeffers too, finally! I'll check H & C because I called 3 more places (total 5) and found nothing!
Well, it does say "kelp meal." Guess I have more leaky brain syndrome! LOL! You could buy the stuff at the garden center -- or look at it and see if you can find a phone number for the manufacturer and call them and ask if there is any reason you can't feed it to animals. If you buy it and decide not to give it to the goats, it'll be great for your garden. I was thinking it might be kind of expensive there, but it probably depends on how big the bags are. The Fertrell dealer here sells 50 pound bags for around $50.
You can get ammonium chloride from Hoegger or Caprine Supply online. They are small bags, but you don't need very much for prevention of UC. I bought it once and then decided not to get it again because thankfully UC is something I've never had a problem with, but I don't normally feed grain to my bucks.
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