So...as the newbie-to-be (I can't even pick up my goats-2 adult does and 2 bucklings until after the first week in July) I have a question about pens/pastures and who goes where when. Since I am A) an adult, B) a mother, and C) a registered nurse...I'm pretty clear on the whole "birds and the bees" thing and why the boys are so VERY interested in the girls at certain times. But what about after the does are bred? Someone (not on this list) told me that they then just leave the bucks with the does until right before kidding...for some reason, I don't like this idea but would like to hear what y'all do. I already have a plan for a buck barn where I can rotate paddocks (yeah, I'm a horse person and to me a paddock is a real small pasture! ;-) ). Then I will have a doe paddock/pasture with access to the big barn (still working on how to rotate that, since the big barn is already in place.) Then...what about kidding time and the kids at weaning. I assume that after a doe has kidded and bonded and stayed in the barn with her babies for a day or two, that she can then go out into the pasture with other does, whether they have kids or not...right? And I understand that any bucklings have to be separated from the does by 10-12 weeks...but at that age, can they go into the buck pen or do they need a baby buck pen to themselves? Can doelings being weaned be put in with dry does, or just with other doelings and how long do they generally have to be away from their mother? When I breed, I would prefer to leave the babies with their moms and milk once a day for as long as is reasonable. And finally--please don't kick me out, Deborah--in addition to NDs I seem to be fascinated with Lamanchas. If I ever get any, can the two breeds co-exist, despite the size difference? Does, that is...not bucks.
We recently sold a small farmette in NC and are moving to our "forever" farm in TN at the end of June...I am asking all these questions because as much as possible, I want to set things up right the first time. Thanks for any input.
Jackie
Replies
Bucks probably won't wean before they get interested in the girls. I do wean boys somewhere between 2 and 3 months.
Ditto on what Rachel said about using NDs for meat. We have Shetland sheep, which will never ever be "raised" for meat, but my fiber flock is quite large enough, so the boys get turned into lamb chops. In fact, we just had two more born today. :)
That's great that you're within driving distance! I really should not keep all the mini manchas. Scratch that -- I really should not keep ANY of the mini manchas. I'm milking 15 NDs and 2 LMs at the moment. I have five dry yearlings and am keeping five doelings, which adds up to 25 NDs to milk next year. So, if you're thinking about the minis, drop me a line.
LOL on Billy Bob's goats! I know someone who bought a cheap Alpine once. It gave less milk than my NDs.
how do you grain weaned bucklings who are living in the buck pen? I've had it in my head that I would have a separate night pen in the barn and grain at night with the bucklings in that.
I'm sure you can imagine how many people have told me about BillyBob's three nannies that are for sale for $25 and why on earth would I be looking at goats that cost THAT much?! Uh, YEAH. I've gotten that one a LOT.
So I have been pondering LMs for milk and NDs for cheese and mini-manchas seem like a very interesting possibility... I have also done some research on Kikos for meat -and obviously they would not live near the dairy goats-but that is a whole different kettle of fish. Keep in mind, that if you're looking for self sustainability, You can most certainly GET all of those things from one goat breed. Granted, you won't have AS MUCH meat from a NDG, but you won't pay as much to raise them up either. Milk production for drinking is very doable with NDG too... not to discourage you from getting other breeds, just a reminder that they really ARE able to provide all you'll need. Most meat, dairy, etc. specific breeds, (esp. meat) are just breeds that put more meat on and fetch higher per lb. prices at market. If your focus is on providing for your family, it may be more cost effective to produce one breed that isn't necessarily FOR meat, but can be used for that purpose when it's not all about weight at market. Certainly, your cost to keep a base breeding stock would be lower if you only had one herd to focus on. If you have a dairy doe that throws large bucklings, for example, you might keep her, and wether her bucklings for meat.
LOL on the la manchas! I do have la manchas, although I frequently ask myself WHY!!! I love my little NDs, but I think the no-ear thing is really cute, so I have la manchas to make mini manchas, but sometimes I don't think the no-ear thing is worth it. They're just so darn cute! Yes, they can co-exist. From talking to a lot of breeders before choosing a standard breed, one of the reasons I got la manchas is because they're very sweet. Nubians and Alpines not so much. Before launching into a second breed though, keep in mind that it takes quite a few goats to start breeding great goats, so you have to ask yourself how much you're willing to spend to get enough breeding stock of two different breeds to get the great goats. The other thing to think about is what you want to do with the goats. We make cheese, so we want butterfat, which the NDs win big time over the la manchas. I posted milk test results on here about a month ago. I had a LM and a ND that had produced exactly the same amount of butterfat at the same days fresh, but the LM just had a lot more milk, which doesn't do you any good if your goal is cheese -- and the LM eats a lot more.
I personally wouldn't leave bucks with the does because (1) they will make them stink, and (2) if one loses a pregnancy and gets rebred, you will have no idea when to expect kids, which can lead to all sorts of craziness. Check out the posts on here about pen breeding to get a feel for that challenge.
I never wean does unless they do something obnoxious like bite mama's teat, which has only happened twice.
As for number of pens -- you can never have too many!
I've copied and pasted with your Q in bold... because I'm tired... lol
But what about after the does are bred? Someone (not on this list) told me that they then just leave the bucks with the does until right before kidding...for some reason, I don't like this idea but would like to hear what y'all do.
This is one of those personal choices/what works for you type things. HOWEVER. I personally do not/would not keep a buck with my does. EVER. They go into the pen (at the moment I don't have a buck, we take our girls on goat dates. The way I'm explaining is how I plan to coordinate my bucks and does. It's also how my breeder does it) Where the bucks live. We watch to make sure the "deed" gets done a couple times, and take the doe out. The bucks live in their own pen. My breeder has two bucks and a wether in one pen. They all get a long fine.
I already have a plan for a buck barn where I can rotate paddocks (yeah, I'm a horse person and to me a paddock is a real small pasture! ;-) ). Then I will have a doe paddock/pasture with access to the big barn (still working on how to rotate that, since the big barn is already in place.) Then...what about kidding time and the kids at weaning. I assume that after a doe has kidded and bonded and stayed in the barn with her babies for a day or two, that she can then go out into the pasture with other does, whether they have kids or not...right?
I and my breeder have stalls that can be set up for kidding, and then re opened to "the public" during non kidding times. My barn is small. I have a 4X10 ish spot for kidding separated from the rest of the barn, which is about 10X14ish? My barn will house 5 adult goats and any kids they are raising, but only 5 adults max. The kidding pen will be used like you explained with does staying in that area for a few days and moving back out with the herd.
And I understand that any bucklings have to be separated from the does by 10-12 weeks...but at that age, can they go into the buck pen or do they need a baby buck pen to themselves?
My breeder just bought a very young buck and put it in with her adult buck and wethers just recently... they all get a long fine. No issues. The young buck has actually been breeding too, so it's not just because the bigger buck doesn't see him as a threat. I think the breed just gets a long.
Can doelings being weaned be put in with dry does, yes.
or just with other doelings and how long do they generally have to be away from their mother? When I breed, I would prefer to leave the babies with their moms and milk once a day for as long as is reasonable.
My breeder's does seem to wean without any aide by about 2 months. There are a few that will allow their babies to nurse here and there, but in general, the dams seem ready to "kick the kid off" so to speak and start weaning on their own. My breeder doesn't separate her kids from their dams other than at night for milking purposes.
And finally--please don't kick me out, Deborah--in addition to NDs I seem to be fascinated with Lamanchas. If I ever get any, can the two breeds co-exist, despite the size difference? Does, that is...not bucks.
This will be a good one for Deb because she has some Lamanchas (I think?) I can tell you that this might be a personality thing... I had a Nubian doe that was NOT safe with my Nigerians. However, I think that a larger breed raised from a young age with a smaller breed MIGHT work better. The doe I had was an adult, and didn't like the baby NDG I got. She was relentless. My older NDG and her had gotten a long fairly well up to the point I got the second/smaller NDG. Even though she wasn't the older doe's baby, the older doe protected her like she was, and was getting quite a beating because of it. I ended up culling the larger goat because I knew I really wanted to be working with NDG.