Hi folks,
About 2 years ago a woman in the valley next to ours was arrested for hoarding. About 200 live animals were found on her place and about a hundred dead ones. We have done rescue work with injured, abandon and old horses for years and had recently had to put down an old Arabian mare who, at 30+ years, had quit eating and going to the bathroom (usually means cancer). So we had a free stall. We called animal control and told them we had a free stall and could foster a couple of the mini horses -- over 150 had been rescued, some in such bad condition they had to be put down.
The guy from Animal Control came out to check us out and said, "Oh, this is perfect! Can you take four pregnant pygmy does?" In our naïvete we said, "Sure." They were Nigerian Dwarf crosses according to the vet who checked them and did the ultrasounds, confirming all four were pregnant. That was October of 2012. Not knowing when they were bred, and only having had Nubian wethers before to eat the ever-present wild blackberries and help out with safe yard clippings, we did not know what to expect. We watched every YouTube available on pygmy and dwarf goat kiddings (we've done horses and dogs, but that's different). The ladies were tested for coccidia and the counts were extremely high, so onto the medication they went and I cleaned and swept their stall daily to get that cycle broken.
Because the goats were essentially wild, having had no care, I sat in their stall every evening for at least an hour after dinner, under the heat lamps (it was a cold winter), wrapped up in a blanket and reading a book just so they would get used to human beings around that weren't trying to chase and catch them.
Finally, New Year's Eve, at 7 p.m., the first twins were born to the youngest doe (estimated about 2 years old). Sparing the details, we had three sets of triplets after that. In one week. All does and all eleven babies, including a 24 ounce runt (Bandy) who was in the house with us for a number of weeks, lived and thrived.
Lots of fun. They are over a year old now and we are milking three of the does -- the youngest one, and her twins, went to a new home. However the other does all turned out to have CL, which is highly contagious within species, so we now have twelve goats and I pasteurize the milk, which is incredibly delicious. We will not bring in any more goats and we will not send any of these to other homes.
Here is the big question, and the main reason I am here: after keeping the boys (all wethered) and girls separate for several months -- different stalls, different pastures, etc. -- we allowed them some fresh grazing in our neighbor's pasture -- all together. And, son-of-a-gun if some of the boys, at over a year old, didn't get down on their knees and nurse their moms! The does allowed it! I want that milk! So we are back to separating them again.
They WANT to be together as a herd. We would love that, too. I've even considered putting Thumbzit on the does nipples, as I think when I wash them off before milking it would come off and we wouldn't get it in the milk. Has anyone else had to deal with this problem and if so, what on earth did you do? The boys are even bigger than their moms. It's ridiculous!
Scroll down a bit here and you will see pictures of the four does when they arrived, as well as some of the Nubians and little Bandy when she was a couple of days old.
http://www.setterfield.org/AnimalSection/animals.html
Thanks for working your way through all this and if anyone has any ideas about those little mommy-fixated boys, please let me know!
Replies
Thanks, Rachel. I had seen more expensive udder slings before and ruled them out for that reason. However, when I milked last night, Taffy (whose sons are the worst offenders) was only about a quarter of a cup off. This is WAY different from the teaspoon or so I was getting before when the boys were snacking so heavily during the day. So maybe the cycle is breaking now. That would sure make things easier.
Reading other posts in other sections here, it seems does will only give milk for a couple of years if you don't breed them. That is not an option with these ladies, so we have maybe a year to go and I'm just grateful for what we are getting -- from three of them about 6 cups a day total. That's enough for us and the neighbor who opened up his pasture to them. The milk is so rich that I have to dilute it with water when I make puddings or soups (cream of whatever). Lovely stuff!
There are auctions even in Oregon... and I agree. I don't think the issue is that we're here in Oregon (I live up the I-5 from you) it's where the goats are being purchased, and if not from auctions, that people are housing new goats on property where CL has not been eradicated before they bring in new stock. A lot of hoarders also think that THEY are actually "rescuing" animals too, and will go to auction to "save" animals from slaughter... so it's not unthinkable that that might be where her goats came from. There are a lot of reputable breeders in our state. The problem is that there are also a lot of uneducated people that purchase goats too. They want them cheap, and they get them from people who are NOT reputable because they don't want to pay the price for good reputation.
In regards to your issues with your kids nursing when you don't want them to:
There are udder slings that are supposed to help with this. You might be able to fashion something using a halter... they are basically a bra for udders, and by containing the udder in fabric, you keep the kids from being able to nurse. http://hoeggerfarmyard.com/xcart/product.php?productid=3482
Thanks. I guess that is all we can do. They've been together all day today; it will be interesting to see what this evening brings.
Love the individual personalities! Bandy is still quite sure she really does belong in the house. But by the time the barn was warm enough to put her in with the other goats last year, here in the house she was using the dogs for springboards, overturning trash cans, and generally getting into enormous amounts of mischief. Goats are not good house pets.....LOL. Well, she would curl up in my lap when we watched TV after dinner. That was sweet.
By the way, we are in a ranch/farm area, so there was no need for the woman to pick up goats anywhere but from anyone around here! One of the very frustrating things we have faced as rescuers is the number of folk who move here to 'get a taste of farm life' etc. and buy animals they have no idea of how to take care of. Horses are abandon or starving in fields, goats run wild, llamas and alpacas are left uncared for as 'flock guardians.' Feral cats abound. There are a lot of very responsible animal owners, of course, but the number of irresponsible owners is staggering.
Here is one of the stories files shortly after her arrest at that time. She has been arrested since, again, for more animal problems. http://ktvl.com/shared/news/top-stories/stories/ktvl_vid_2797.shtml
If it were me, I would just keep doing what you're doing... separating them at night, milking in the morning and then milk again in the evening even if you don't get much then. The boys will probably stop on their own as Deborah said, they are probably doing it for security and they'll likely stop on their own when they feel more secure (since you recently put them all back together). Good luck! I enjoyed reading your story!
Apart from how awful these rescue animals might be, they are sweet and we love them. Does ANYONE have any ideas about getting the boys to stop snacking off their moms? They are 16 months old at the end of this month....
I wouldn't say that CL is more of a problem in Oregon than anywhere else. Considering the background of your goats, I would not be surprised if they had CAE or Johnes too. An animal hoarder does not generally buy the best quality animals. They buy cheap animals. The goats were probably picked up from a sale barn or Craigslist, which is where people dump animals with issues. Reputable breeders have herds that have tested negative for those diseases, and they don't bring in animals that are untested or from herds with unknown disease status.
Evidently CL is endemic to Oregon. We've had quite a learning curve. We have been isolating the mamas for almost a year now, at nights, so that is a long-gone done deal. We figured, too, that the snack nursing would quit by autumn when they were 8- 10 months old, as well. And therein lies the problem. The boys are still snacking to the degree that there is almost no evening milk. When we separate them for the day we get as much milk in the evening as in the morning, but we also get some unhappy goats.
That is why I asked my original question.
So sorry to hear that the goats tested positive for CL. That is disappointing but not surprising, considering where they came from.
We never actually wean our doeling, and most of them quit nursing by 8-10 months. In many cases, if they're feeling secure, they hardly nurse at all towards the end of that time frame. If you have them separated overnight and milk in the morning before turn-out, that might be one easy way to meet your needs an the kids' needs. After a few days when the novelty wears off, you might also find that there is milk in the udder when the goats come inside in the evening too.
Hi, and thanks for the response. We had separated the guys and gals in December when it was apparent the does were not going to stop their 'little' ones from nursing. They had already been separated at night for quite awhile. When Taffy was not showing up with more than a teaspoon of milk in the evenings, we then separated them completely. Milk production absolutely increased, as we milk in the evenings, too.
When we first released them altogether into our neighbor's pasture, they were racing back and forth in between mouthfuls. Is this a scary place or not? It was funny. When they had settled down, the boys went to their moms for snacks. The doelings never did.
Because of the CL, we will not be breeding any of the does at all. First, that would be incredibly irresponsible and, second, this valley (and especially this home!) does not need any more goats.
Sooooo, what to do. We have more rain due this week, so that makes it easy to keep them separate as rain is considered a lethal substance in their goat ideas and they run for their own stalls the minute there are any drops coming down, so all I have to do is keep the center gate shut between the two halves of our pasture. Boys on one side, girls on the other. They are used to that. Life stays interesting....LOL
I cannot say but I suspect the nursing will be a short-lived thing and you might consider just letting it happen a few days. I noticed that a few days after my junior doe kidded this year that her sister (not her last year's daughter!) grabbed some milk. I was shocked that she let it happen given they will not nurse other kids and this one had *never* been her kid and was two years old. I observed it happening one more time and no more. I'm thinking there might be a security issue at play here, both for yours and for mine. For mine, she was the only baby two years ago and was quite spoiled and may be feeling neglected right now with the babies and more on the way. Why your boys are doing it is anyone's guess. I'll be very curious as to what others think.