FEEDING SUPPLEMENTS

Debbie Nightingale January 7, 2011 at 9:14pm

Gotcha. Well I got a couple of blocks - as long as they won't hurt the girls, I'll leave them in then. I have baking soda separate and kelp/minerals/Vitamin B (powdered) in another feeder....

Thanks.

D/

Deborah Niemann-Boehle said:

Ideally, salt should be available free choice. However, I've only recently done that, and my goats appeared to be okay for almost nine years without it. Normally, I have minerals and baking soda, both of which are pretty high in salt, and I've had no problems. I know a holistic vet who says salt should always be separate in case the animals want it so that if they just want salt, they're not also consuming minerals or baking soda. And pretty much everything for goats (as in salt and minerals) should be loose because goats have a soft tongue, and they don't get much off of a block.

Debbie Nightingale said:

Hi Deborah

I think the feed program is almost sorted out. One last question. A goat advisor friend suggests having salt available free choice. She also said salt blocks aren't as good as loose salt for them. Thoughts?

Best

D.

Deborah Niemann-Boehle January 7, 2011 at 8:39pm

Ideally, salt should be available free choice. However, I've only recently done that, and my goats appeared to be okay for almost nine years without it. Normally, I have minerals and baking soda, both of which are pretty high in salt, and I've had no problems. I know a holistic vet who says salt should always be separate in case the animals want it so that if they just want salt, they're not also consuming minerals or baking soda. And pretty much everything for goats (as in salt and minerals) should be loose because goats have a soft tongue, and they don't get much off of a block.

Debbie Nightingale said:

Hi Deborah

I think the feed program is almost sorted out. One last question. A goat advisor friend suggests having salt available free choice. She also said salt blocks aren't as good as loose salt for them. Thoughts?

Best

D.

Debbie Nightingale January 7, 2011 at 1:12pm

Hi Deborah

I think the feed program is almost sorted out. One last question. A goat advisor friend suggests having salt available free choice. She also said salt blocks aren't as good as loose salt for them. Thoughts?

Best

D.

Deborah Niemann-Boehle said:

Sheep pellets have NO copper, so odds are excellent that your goats are copper deficient, which is especially problematic if they're pregnant. Copper deficiency causes low fertility and abortion at all stages of pregnancy, as well as death. Kids born to copper-deficient dams can have stunted growth. You need to get a goat feed with at least 40 ppm copper. Some goat grains have less, but in conversations with a professor who has actually studied goat nutrition, he told me they need 40 ppm. Purina Goat Chow has that amount, but other Purina goat feeds do not, so it can even vary between feeds within a company. I don't mean to sound alarmist, but I went through several years of copper deficiency (caused by sulfur in well water) and had some outstanding goats die and more abortions than I want to remember, including some at four months gestation, which is really heartbreaking.

Kelp is not the same thing as a mineral. It is an excellent supplement, which I also give my goats, but they still need a GOAT mineral. Do NOT get a "sheep and goat" mineral because it will have NO copper. The mineral should be at least 1,500 ppm because they don't eat much of it, and it is to fill in the gaps for whatever copper they are not getting in their hay or browse or pasture, which tends to be very low.

If your goats are pregnant, I'd strongly recommend giving them copper boluses to try to get their copper levels up before they kid. There are quite a few conversations on the list about copper boluses.

If the sheep pellets have molybdenum added, then it is even more problematic because that inhibits copper absorption, so they were not even absorbing any additional copper that they may have gotten from hay or anything.

Tammy Lee Birrer January 4, 2011 at 9:20pm

Thank you!

Deborah Niemann-Boehle January 4, 2011 at 7:07pm

She does not need grain but does need a goat mineral available free choice. Do not get one that says "sheep and goat" because it won't have any copper in it. Loose minerals are better than a block, because goats have soft tongues and can have trouble licking a hard block.

Tammy Lee Birrer said:

Hi, after reading this, I have a question. I have not been in the practice of giving supplemental feeds and only feed alfalfa at this time. My doe is 2 1/2 months pregnant now. Should I be feeding the goat chow, and if so, how much per feeding? I had heard in the past, for dairy goats, that you should not give the grain until she is in the last few weeks of pregnancy and during lactation. Until then, the Alfalfa hay was fine. If this isn't correct, I need to change my feeding program.

Thank you.

Tammy

Tammy Lee Birrer January 4, 2011 at 4:58pm

Hi, after reading this, I have a question. I have not been in the practice of giving supplemental feeds and only feed alfalfa at this time. My doe is 2 1/2 months pregnant now. Should I be feeding the goat chow, and if so, how much per feeding? I had heard in the past, for dairy goats, that you should not give the grain until she is in the last few weeks of pregnancy and during lactation. Until then, the Alfalfa hay was fine. If this isn't correct, I need to change my feeding program.

Thank you.

Tammy

Deborah Niemann-Boehle said:

Sheep pellets have NO copper, so odds are excellent that your goats are copper deficient, which is especially problematic if they're pregnant. Copper deficiency causes low fertility and abortion at all stages of pregnancy, as well as death. Kids born to copper-deficient dams can have stunted growth. You need to get a goat feed with at least 40 ppm copper. Some goat grains have less, but in conversations with a professor who has actually studied goat nutrition, he told me they need 40 ppm. Purina Goat Chow has that amount, but other Purina goat feeds do not, so it can even vary between feeds within a company. I don't mean to sound alarmist, but I went through several years of copper deficiency (caused by sulfur in well water) and had some outstanding goats die and more abortions than I want to remember, including some at four months gestation, which is really heartbreaking.

Kelp is not the same thing as a mineral. It is an excellent supplement, which I also give my goats, but they still need a GOAT mineral. Do NOT get a "sheep and goat" mineral because it will have NO copper. The mineral should be at least 1,500 ppm because they don't eat much of it, and it is to fill in the gaps for whatever copper they are not getting in their hay or browse or pasture, which tends to be very low.

If your goats are pregnant, I'd strongly recommend giving them copper boluses to try to get their copper levels up before they kid. There are quite a few conversations on the list about copper boluses.

If the sheep pellets have molybdenum added, then it is even more problematic because that inhibits copper absorption, so they were not even absorbing any additional copper that they may have gotten from hay or anything.

Deborah Niemann-Boehle January 4, 2011 at 11:48am

Yes, because hay is extremely low in copper, and their diet needs to average 40 ppm. I forget what hay is, but it is negligible, so that's what the mineral is for. Also, wethers and bucks should not get grain because of the risk of urinary calculi (stones). However, I know you're in Canada, and your buck might need the extra calories to stay warm during winter. But wethers should never have grain, and the buck should not have it unless he starts to lose body condition without it. Dry does also do not need grain. I've noticed that when all the does are milking (getting grain), they barely touch the minerals, but when they're dry, they go through the minerals like candy.

Debbie Nightingale said:

Hi Deborah.

Will they need a mineral as well if they have the ration? If so, I just ask for a "goat mineral with 1,500 ppm?"

Tks.

D.

Deborah Niemann-Boehle January 4, 2011 at 11:40am

These are the boluses for cattle:

http://www.jefferslivestock.com/copasure/camid/LIV/cp/16535/

You rip open the capsule and then redistribute the copper particles into smaller capsules, which you can buy from dozens of websites online. They've done research now that says they COWP works fine if the goats eat it, rather than having it pushed down their throats as a whole capsule, so I basically use the capsules as the measurement device and a way to store the individual doses and just pull open the little capsules and top dress a goat's pan of feed while she's on the milk stand. Size "0" capsule is good for most adults goats, but if one is severely deficient (showing multiple symptoms) I double it.

Debbie Nightingale January 4, 2011 at 11:32am

Hi Deborah.

Will they need a mineral as well if they have the ration? If so, I just ask for a "goat mineral with 1,500 ppm?"

Tks.

D.

Deborah Niemann-Boehle said:

That sounds great! Have you been able to find a goat mineral also?

Debbie Nightingale said:

Hi Deborah. So I found a feed supply who has dairy ration. He says its exactly the same mix as the goat chow and has 40ppm of copper. Sound right to you? He's highly recommended by reviews of his site and said that he has had up to 2,000 goats of his own in past years so knows them well......

Deborah Niemann-Boehle January 4, 2011 at 11:28am

That sounds great! Have you been able to find a goat mineral also?

Debbie Nightingale said:

Hi Deborah. So I found a feed supply who has dairy ration. He says its exactly the same mix as the goat chow and has 40ppm of copper. Sound right to you? He's highly recommended by reviews of his site and said that he has had up to 2,000 goats of his own in past years so knows them well......

Forum

FEEDING SUPPLEMENTS

Replies