I have three does, all of which should be pregnant. Two of them are getting noticeably thinner as their (supposed) pregnancies develop. They aren't really what I'd call too thin yet, though Cupcake is close. The underside of her tail is sort of wrinkly, so I can tell she's loosing fat from it. Both of them are getting bonier with their spines sticking up a bit, but not yet what I'd call too much.
Here's the situation with each of them:
CUPCAKE: 18 months old. My hunch is that she is about two months into her pregnancy. This will be her second freshening. First freshening she had a single doeling.
STARLIGHT: 2.5 years old. My hunch is she's about 2.5 months along. This will be her first freshening.
Right now, all three does together get 2 flakes of very nice orchard grass/timothy hay in the morning, as well as the evening. It's nice and weedy with occasional raspberry canes with dried leaves on them. This has always been enough hay for them, and even now they seem to have at least a bit left at every feeding. They have minerals free choice. I feed them about 1/4 cup each BOSS plus 2 T. grain (14 % horse chow) daily and occasionally (about once a week) a couple tablespoons of kelp. We're in norther MN, so no pasture or browse for about 4 months now.
My question is this:
Should I just increase their hay and see if they'll eat more, at least getting more of what they like even if they waste more? Is there something else I should feed them? Should I just wait and watch? I sure wasn't planning to increase their concentrates until the end of their pregnancies (provided they are pregnant).
I'd love some advice! Thanks. :)
Replies
Great! I'm relieved to hear that, and I'll just keep an eye on Cupcake, especially. I think I'm going to feed her a bit more hay away from the others since she always gets pushed around by Japanzy, but just the grass hay. And, I'm going to stop worrying now. :)
If I had just seen these pictures of the goats without any history, I wouldn't think that there was anything wrong with them. They look like they're in good condition. And you have some nice green hay, especially the alfalfa.
Our hay. 1st is timothy/orchard grass
2nd is similar, but not same cutting or field and more weedy
I alternate between these two.
Last is Alfalfa (now just wiating for the girls to freshen).
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Well, now that I've taken these pics, I'm feeling a bit silly for worrying about them at all. They have such a heavy coat that it's hard to tell how they're doing for sure by looking at these pictures. I know that Cupcake (white) and Starlight (brown/white belt) have lost weight, but they still look pretty nice to me. I think Starlight and Japanzy may have started out a bit overweight, since I had that little issue with thinking I was supposed to feed them alfalfa when they were dry. Oops. Japanzy (black and white) is just a stocky, muscular goat. She's incredibly hearty, healthy and just a good cold weather girl. She has a ton of cashmere now, and is so soft. I'm also adding a few hay pics for you to critique as well. Then I'm going to leave you alone and stop worrying about these girls for now. ;) Thanks, and have a great weekend at the conference. I checked it out and it seemed like a lot of fun and a good learning experience.
Oh, I forgot to say no lice that I can see and no sigh of them being bothered by such.
Those fecal directions are good as long as you didn't miss anything. I know one time when I did a fecal, the liquid level got below the slide, so nothing showed up.
It's really tough to know exactly what's what long distance. I'd definitely suggest keeping notes on all of this so you have good reference for the future. Everything is different from farm to farm -- soil, forage, water -- so you have to figure out a lot of this on your own. I'm currently at the Midwest Organic conference and I was at a session this afternoon where the presenter said that he couldn't just give us a recipe that we could all take home for good animal health. You just have to look at your animals and figure out what's working.
It sounds odd that Cupcake was in good shape before getting pregnant but is now thin unless there is something missing from the diet or she has parasites. Have you checked for lice? If they have biting lice, that can certainly cause them to lose weight. You can see them with the naked eye (or reading glasses if you need them). They're usually around the neck and shoulders, if they have them.
If this was the first time you've done fecals, you might do a few more to perfect your technique. It sounds simple, but it can be a little challenging. Luckily it costs next to nothing when you're doing them yourself. When I started, I'd do three or four from each sample, and I discovered that how you handle the feces can make a huge difference in what floats. If you just drop a couple pellets in those fecal flotation tubes and push down the center thing, you will get next to nothing floating. I know they're supposed to simplify things, but you still need to smoosh the poop thoroughly with fecal flotation fluid in a Dixie cup first to get eggs floating.
Based upon your description of what you are feeding, they should not be losing weight, with the exception of Cupcake. I've had dry goats get fat on hay alone, if it was good quality. Having no clue what your hay is like, it's really hard to know exactly what is happening. You could try offering a third flake in the middle of the day to see if they eat more when being fed at a different time.
You didn't mention the age and freshening of the third goat, but freshening a doe twice by age 21 months is pushing it a little because she's still growing. Freshening a doe at a year usually takes a toll on their body, so you don't want to get the pregnant again until they've fully recovered and are in optimum condition. Of course, you never want to get a doe pregnant if she is not in optimum condition, but Cupcake's age really jumps out at me because I don't usually see yearlings recovering from their first freshening that quickly. A year between kiddings seems to be a good time frame, especially between the first and second freshening.
Well, I don't know any more than I did before doing the fecal floatation. I prepared a sample from both does. On each I found about 2 eggs, none of which I was able to identify with any certainty, and none of which looked totally alike. If I had to guess I'd say they were gastrointestinal. They looked the most like hookworm, threadworm and barberpole worm. It is so much harder to ID them than I'd imagined. I looked long and hard, but that's all I found. I hope I can gain more confidence at this, because the nearest "goaty" vet is 3 hours away. Our local vet, though great with our dog and cat, and always willing to help, isn't really familiar with goat parasites. When she did fecals (last June) she only found one egg, and she didn't know what it was.
At any rate, I don't see how I could have a big problem without something showing up on the slide soon. Last time I did fecals (end of November) I didn't find anything more than this time.
I'll take any more advice you have to offer, and for now I'll just keep a close watch over them as always. Thank you so much for what you've offered so far. :)
I have used it during pregnancy and had no problems. The product has been around for a very long time, so they probably haven't updated their label, and they're probably not in a hurry to remove any instructions that would lead to customers using the product less.
You can always offer more hay, especially grass hay. Just keep physically checking the feel of their spine and tail because if they do have parasites, they'll really stuff themselves with hay and get big bellies. It would also be a good idea to check their eyelids at the same time you do fecals, and then you'll know what they look like when compared to the fecals.
Thanks, Deborah. I'll try to get fecals done by tomorrow. I don't see any outward signs of a parasite load, so I'll feel more comfortable treating them if I can see something in the sample.
If I have to deworm, on hand I have Ivesco goat dewormer concentrated pellets. The active ingredient is Morantel. It says on the label that it's safe for pregnant does. However, it also says on the label to retreat in 3 to 4 weeks, and that it may be used once a month. That surely leads one to question everything the label says. Do you consider this a safe dewormer for use in pregnancy?
Thanks again!
I'd check them for parasites. You are feeding them very well and should not be seeing weight loss.