So I have the doses for DE written down. I'm worming my cats, and giving it orally. Suddenly it occurred to me... are we talking so many tablespoons DRY or WET!? I feed it to them wet, because they eat it really well that way. (Actually, I'm giving them my milk with it in there for now) But when the dose says X amount of tablespoons, are they using dry measurements or wet? I'm assuming dry, but I figured I'd check with all of you. Getting the stuff wet makes it compact A LOT. It's better to over dose than under dose with it, that I know, so I need to be sure.
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The Asthma thing is probably why there is a warning, then. Pool Grade DE is EXTREMELY toxic.
Interesting... I've seen the warning on food grade and garden grade... I wonder if it was just because it's on the pool grade? My goats don't eat it as well when it's not wet, and my cats won't touch it. (I tried it dry a couple times, and then read the warning) They eat it best mixed with food for me too, only I wet mine...
I've left it out free choice in a mineral feeder but don't now because I have my mineral feeders filled other things that I think are more important at the moment (minerals, kelp, clay, and baking soda). I have another mineral feeder to put up, but haven't gotten around to it yet! Anyway, I just sprinkle some in the bottom of every feed pan at the moment. However, when I've been serious about using it as a dewormer, I've added 1/4 cup to the feed and mixed it up. The feed is completely white. I know there is a lot of info out there about it potentially harming the lungs, but I *think* they may be talking about the pool grade DE rather than the food grade. And I'm not sure how they could get enough in their lungs to actually hurt them unless you really went overboard with it. It has to go all the way through their nostrils and windpipe to get to the lungs, which sounds like a pretty long journey. Many of my goats have white noses when they're done eating their grain, and I've only had one issue so far. I had a doe get a bloody nose once in the middle of winter when the air here was really dry, and she's been eating the feed with DE on it for about a week. The blood all came from the rim of her nostrils, so nothing from inside. It was only a little blood, and I quit giving her DE, and she was fine. According to the entomologist I spoke with, DE works with garden pests by dehydrating them simply because it is like a sponge, sucking out moisture of whatever it contacts. If you look at it under a microscope, which I have, it does look like tiny shards of glass, which may be why some people made the connection between the two. And pool-grade DE is more coarse too.
I live in Oregon, Glenna. I literally get it wet. I make a paste out of it. For the cats, I just made the milk soupy with it in the goat milk. When I'm dosing my goats, I measure out the paste and mix it with their grain. They all eat it. I don't know how well the wet would work with free choice, or how Deb gives it to her goats, but all the packages I've read say don't breathe it, and I can't see a way they can avoid that if it's totally dry. Even in our moist climate.
Great minds think alike and, as my eldest son says, "So do ours."<g>
I had just posted asking if anyone used DE for worming and then saw the thread so deleted my question to add on here. Now Kelly mentioned putting it out free choice and Rachel said it should be wet. For those of us in a moister climate (western Washington/Oregon), would normal humidity be enough? I leave it out between my sink and the outside wall in the kitchen and there has never been a problem with it "spreading" though I replace it often because it gets wet with the sink/faucet activity.
Would it work to leave it out free choice in a container that they can barely reach it in, like with only their tongues so there would no real chance of getting their nostrils into it and breathing it? It doesn't sound like just sprinkling it in their feed would give enough for it to be effective.
I "dusted" the two older goats with it before Ginger was born but worried even as careful as I was about it being in the air (rubbing it in rather than sprinkling) that they might breathe it. While I can wear a mask, that would be a bit more difficult for them!
Just be sure you wet it if you're feeding it. It's not good to breathe a lot of it.
Very interesting. Makes me want to put out a bowl for the goats free choice. They seem to really know what it is they need and when.
So I guess it's not the same... but because it works two WAYS... it can work wet or dry? I'm using it on my cats in this case, and on internal parasites. I've seen the same issues you're talking about when using it directly on an animal with skin drying, Deb. I use it externally in bedding for my chickens, and they have never had lice or mites... but I have always used it preventative... so all I can say is they've never had them... and guess that it's at least partly to do with the DE. I also use it at the bottom of my food bin, and I can see first hand that it works there. I toss it every once in a while, because the bugs build up in it.
I always heard that in the gut, the DE works to slice them all up... but I hadn't heard that people think they dehydrate too. That seems a little counter-intuitive to me... since they are in "wet"... I'll keep everyone updated on whether or not this works on my cats.
I talked to a University of Illinois entomology professor about this. DE has two modes of action -- abrasion and dehydration. Some people think they work together, but they don't. In other words, some people think <that the diatoms cut up the insect, and they dehydrate because they're cut up, but they won't dehydrate in an animal's gut because it's wet in there.> Actually those two modes of action have nothing to do with each other. DE is extremely drying, and that has nothing to do with the fact that it looks like tiny shards of glass under a microscope. I have seen first hand the whole "adsorption" thing -- yes it is adsorption, which is apparently not quite the same as absorption, according to the professor, but I'm not clear on that part. Anyway, I put a LOT of DE on one of my goats that had lice, and the poor girl's skin got so dry that she was itching about ten times worse than before I put the DE on her! I felt so guilty! It was the middle of winter, and I couldn't bathe her to get it off, so she just had to shake it off over the course of a few days. So, no, you won't dehydrate something in an animal's gut, however, you could cut it up. The real issue is quantity, which is the same issue when using it in a garden. It's not a chemical that gets into the system. It is a physical pesticide, meaning that it must come in contact with the pest to kill it. So, giving a tablespoon of DE to a goat isn't going to do much because it wouldn't come into contact with many bugs in the digestive tract.
Now -- after saying all that -- the jury is still out on whether or not it works on internal parasites. I do know that when a goat has a heavy load of parasites, they LOVE the stuff and will butt away other goats to get all of it for themselves. So, even if it doesn't kill parasites, I suspect it has some micronutrients in it that a parasite-infested goat (or other animal) might really need.
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