it is the big block on the Meat Maker - however, I use a screwdriver and hammer to break off chunks and squish the chunks with my fingers, I am so glad the does dont insist I chew it first......- it gets damp even with a light bulb on in the barn - so I dont put out the whole thing. If I put a heat lamp directed at the minerals it keeps it dry - sigh....... and speaking of calcium, the last bale of alfalfa/grass i bought seems to be mostly fluffy grass with little alfalfa, which a cow or horse would probably fight for - the goats? arent impressed with the luck of the draw. ^^
Check the label on the Purina, but I think it has the right calcium/phosphorus balance. I know Meat Maker does. The Sweetlix dairy mineral has half as much calcium, because they assume dairy goats are getting 100% alfalfa. They might not be eating as much of the Meat Maker because it's a block. Goats have very soft tongues, and many have trouble getting enough minerals off a block. Is it a pressed block (a big square) or a poured block in a tub? The poured blocks are usually okay, because they're softer, and the goats can use their lower teeth to scratch it off. Purina has twice as much salt as Sweetlix, so they might like the added salt for some reason. I wish they could talk! Wouldn't that make life easier!
Melissa Johnson said:
Thank you Deborah, I needed that advice. The book is closed :). Now if I could just get them bred. urggggg. I feed alfalfa/grass mix hay - which is nuts I paid 13.99 a bale yesterday, but then I am buying by the bale cause I only have the 2 goats. But they are eating more - it lasted a little over a month. For that I could be buying straight alfalfa. Anyway, they really like Purina Goat Minerals which they have free choice and I bought a block of Sweetlix Meat Maker, they eat it but not as well. I was wondering about that this am - how in the world are you supposed to know if they are getting 2:1 calcium/phosphorus. ^^
Thank you Deborah, I needed that advice. The book is closed :). Now if I could just get them bred. urggggg. I feed alfalfa/grass mix hay - which is nuts I paid 13.99 a bale yesterday, but then I am buying by the bale cause I only have the 2 goats. But they are eating more - it lasted a little over a month. For that I could be buying straight alfalfa. Anyway, they really like Purina Goat Minerals which they have free choice and I bought a block of Sweetlix Meat Maker, they eat it but not as well. I was wondering about that this am - how in the world are you supposed to know if they are getting 2:1 calcium/phosphorus. ^^
Yes, I think you should put the book away. You're starting to make me paranoid. :) Hypocalcemia means not enough calcium, but if you're feeding alfalfa and you have a high-calcium mineral, you should be fine. When you feed grass hay and grain, there is a calcium-phosphorus imbalance. That's the problem. I feed Sweetlix Meat Maker mineral instead of Dairy Magnum, because Meat Maker has more calcium.
Melissa Johnson said:
this was one of many - things - I saw on the Goat Spot on the net -(this was also one of the things Cheryl Smith mentioned in her book about abortion/stillborn issues) from the Goat Spot reply "Leaning towards Chlamydia, but it looks like the only way to test for it is with the placenta. Also haven't heard of a vaccine. Only way to treat is with Tetracyclines before birth. Don't want to have to do that every year. There is a vaccine that is in use for sheep, but not cleared for goats."
As for me, I am concerned about Hypocalcemia today - I think I should put my book away. The author says it is usually when does have been getting a hefty portion of grain and grass hay in early pregnancy. My does have been on alfalfa/grass hay and getting bout 1/2 cup to 3/4 c. of 16% protein grain since I brought them home a year ago. From what she says, I should stop the grain for the first 3 months of pregnancy. anyway, different subject.
this was one of many - things - I saw on the Goat Spot on the net -(this was also one of the things Cheryl Smith mentioned in her book about abortion/stillborn issues) from the Goat Spot reply "Leaning towards Chlamydia, but it looks like the only way to test for it is with the placenta. Also haven't heard of a vaccine. Only way to treat is with Tetracyclines before birth. Don't want to have to do that every year. There is a vaccine that is in use for sheep, but not cleared for goats."
As for me, I am concerned about Hypocalcemia today - I think I should put my book away. The author says it is usually when does have been getting a hefty portion of grain and grass hay in early pregnancy. My does have been on alfalfa/grass hay and getting bout 1/2 cup to 3/4 c. of 16% protein grain since I brought them home a year ago. From what she says, I should stop the grain for the first 3 months of pregnancy. anyway, different subject.
I was reading a chapter about stillborns and abortion in goats in Goat Health Care, by Cheryl K. Smith the other day. Among other things, Copper deficiency was one cause. I just went over this a few weeks ago on this site and decided to try the Copasure product. I used a digital scale to weigh out the particles and mixed it on top of some grain with a little molasses and peanut butter (which they dont like I found out). Most other people boluse I think - which I didnt care to do. My problem was that one of my yearling does wasnt coming into heat any more - prior she was pretty much like clock work.
Deborah--Do you think that it might be possible the reason that "Rosie" keeps having still birth goats, could be because of the decrease in her copper level. She has had quads twice since we have owned her. The first time she had one buck still born and the second time, she had two bucks still born. She is white with tan. So I really don't know how to tell other than talking my vet into checking her possibly through the blood. If that is possible? Any advice?
Deborah Niemann-Boehle said:
There was a pretty long discussion on this a few months ago. The original question is about how to give copper to your animals, but if you read through all the comments, you'll see that diagnosis is also covered. http://nigeriandwarfgoats.ning.com/forum/topics/copper-1 Holler if you have additional questions. Deborah
Copper oxide wire particles -- which is what is in copper boluses. It's copper oxide, a safer form of copper than copper sulfate. Every case I found in the scientific literature on copper toxicity occurred when goats were given copper sulfate. They've even started giving COWP to sheep in England, Australia, and NZ, and sheep are supposed to be very susceptible to copper toxicity.
I am so bummed speaking of. I had a service buck on 10/15 and I witnessed the breeding. Then on 10/20 she was in screaming heat again. The owner brought the buck back. So I was pretty sure. Now tonight - her rear is puffy/red and her tail is to the side. I am so disappointed!! I can see the advantage of having a buck. -(
Deborah Niemann-Boehle said:
I was afraid of killing mine too, especially when four different vets told me copper deficiency was impossible. But after getting that liver level back on the doe who died (4 ppm when it should be 25-150 ppm), I realized I had nothing to lose by bolusing. I was so amazed at how FAST their coats got soft. And no more non-cycling does, miscarriages, and stillbirths!
Melissa Johnson said:
yes, I was afraid of killing them - a week after dosing, I saw the long string of mucous on my doe. I had begun to think, she must have "silent" heats. ^^
I was afraid of killing mine too, especially when four different vets told me copper deficiency was impossible. But after getting that liver level back on the doe who died (4 ppm when it should be 25-150 ppm), I realized I had nothing to lose by bolusing. I was so amazed at how FAST their coats got soft. And no more non-cycling does, miscarriages, and stillbirths!
Melissa Johnson said:
yes, I was afraid of killing them - a week after dosing, I saw the long string of mucous on my doe. I had begun to think, she must have "silent" heats. ^^
Replies
Melissa Johnson said:
Melissa Johnson said:
As for me, I am concerned about Hypocalcemia today - I think I should put my book away. The author says it is usually when does have been getting a hefty portion of grain and grass hay in early pregnancy. My does have been on alfalfa/grass hay and getting bout 1/2 cup to 3/4 c. of 16% protein grain since I brought them home a year ago. From what she says, I should stop the grain for the first 3 months of pregnancy. anyway, different subject.
Deborah Niemann-Boehle said:
Deborah Niemann-Boehle said:
Deborah Niemann-Boehle said:
Melissa Johnson said:
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