Hi guys,
I am putting a deposit on a buckling who is just about 10 days old right now. She told me she is going to put him on coccidia prevention but would not do it if I prefered she not. She also said she was going to deworm him with something called "silermist", which I have never heard of.
I don't believe in antibiotics when nothing's wrong...am inclined to tell her not to do it...we only deworm when there appears to be reason (anemic, poop problems etc)
Here's one thought- if he is on this coccidia stuff at her place, then I bring him home and he is not getting it any more, would that make him more likely to get coccidia than if he had never had the stuff in the first place? I am hoping some of you more holistic folks on here can help me think this through.
Replies
A lot of vets would say yes, if one goat has parasites, they all do. However, research has not shown this to be true. When they have researched this, they have actually found that the parasites vary a lot from one animal to another. Some animals are much more resistant and/or resilient, and those of us that strive for an organic system want those animals in our herd. Two or three years ago, I had a buck die from a very heavy parasite load, and I kept doing fecals on him for a week as he went downhill, and I was trying one dewormer after another. I was tempted to give all of the bucks in his pen a dewormer because that was the old advice. But instead, I did fecals on them, and just like the research I'd read, their parasite load was very different from the buck that died. There were almost no eggs at all on the slides of the healthy bucks, whereas the slides from the sick buck were covered with parasite eggs. I did not give the other bucks a dewormer, and they were all fine.
Ruth Goode said:
Their pasture is 1 & 1/2 acre, about half mowed and half we keep long for them. I assume that if my big goats have coccidia in their stool the little goats probly do also, right? I plan to breed both does for the first time this fall. Shouldn't we be as close to "coccidia neg" as possible before kids?
Wethers tend to be very easy keepers because there is zero stress on them -- not lactating, not pregnant, not even producing sperm or fighting with other bucks. I personally probably wouldn't treat them, but then I try to stay away from meds as much as possible. My only other thought is whether you have enough pasture space so that they won't be constantly re-ingesting more coccidia.
Ruth Goode said:
I have 4 goats, 2 one yr old Nigerian Dwarf Does and 2 two yr old Nubian wethers. The stool sample I delivered to my vet was from one of the Nubians. The vet said the coccidia in the stool was a very small amount. All 4 of my goats look and act very healthy: they have nice firm berry droppings, shinny coats and enthusiastic appitites. Do you think I should do the medicated feed or not worry about the coccidia?
I look at risks and benefits before doing anything with my goats. Corid is associated with thiamine deficiency in goats, so I don't use it unless the risk of death from coccidiosis is real. I have given it for five days, and have not had any negative effects, but I definitely would not use it as a preventative for two weeks like some people do with cattle, who don't have the risk of thiamine deficiency, or as some do with sulfa drugs and goats.
All goats have some coccidia in their intestinal tract, but it isn't usually a problem for them, especially for adults. Kids may wind up with coccidiosis, which can cause slow weight gain and diarrhea. You didn't say how old your goats were, and that definitely plays a role in the decision making process. Also, if one is milking, there would be milk withdrawal with drug use.
Typically, when you have a sick animal, you want to be sure they get the required dosage, so you drench. If you are looking at preventative treatment, then food or water additives may work fine. And if these goats are not actually sick, you might just consider a medicated feed for a few weeks to reduce the coccidia in their system to a lower level.
I recentlytook a stool sample from one of my goats to my vet to have it checked for parasites. Resuls were: all clear except for a small # of coccidia. My vet recomended that I purchase Corid from the farm store and use as directed. I have read the thread above and am trying to decide if I should treat them, and if so, should I drench or treat them through their water supply? They drink very little water as their pasture is lush. If I treat w/ Corid should I give a thiamine supplement?
Oh goodness, Deborah I am so glad you said that, because now I know what is wrong with me. I have a "BRAIN LEAK" I have always been pretty smart about all my critter stuff. Now days it seems that I either don't know or can"t remember so much. I thought it was old age catching up with me to early and now i know it is just "LEAKY BRAIN SYNDROME". LOL
I suppose the bottom line would be -- as long as you know what drugs she used, you could use something different if the kid has issues after he arrives at your place. And if you haven't seen my blog post from yesterday, check it out:
http://www.homegrownandhandmadethebook.com/2012/04/quarantining-new...
I bought Safeguard resistance. If there was a silver lining, it was that it was in a buck, so only the buck pen was contaminated. Still, after three dead goats, vet visits, and necropsies, it was a $1000 lesson.
I would think that at some point the medicated feed wouldn't work any longer, although the mode of action in the medicated feed is different than the coccidia drugs, so it might be less likely or might take longer. We only used Albon and Sulmet for treatment (never for prevention) and we saw resistance to them after 7-8 years. Now we have to use Corid. This is why natural prevention is so important -- dam raising, so kids can get all those natural antibodies from mom, and keeping the barn as clean as possible to reduce chances of fecal-oral transmission. I've only had three cases this year -- all bottle babies, and the dam-raised kids that were housed with them never got it.
I wish I remembered the details on how the feed additives work (or that I had time to look it up). I stuff my brain with so much info that sometimes it leaks. :)
Janel Rickey said:
Deborah I think she is talking about the method described on the Fiasco website, three weeks off, one week on, etc.
She sounds like one of those people who kind of just does whatever her vet says and trust me, neither the vets nor the goat people around here that I have met are particularly "current" on goat care as far as deworming especially. The medicated feeds and so on also seem to be really popular around here.
I have had people tell me if you didn't deworm them every month they will die (lol) and MY vet actually gave me a hard time about not deworming them more than I do.
Anyway, I hope this little dude doesn't come home and bring Safeguard resistance with him because I've been able to use that before on my others. I did not do fecals but their color did come back well afterward so I do think it worked on them.
Anyway, bottom line: I am inclined to tell her please not to treat him for coccidia and just give him one safeguard right before he leaves. Does that sound good?
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