Back to Color Discussion - I'm pondering my color outcomes

[Judy Asarkof]

Would these statements fit my little bucks here in the picture I uploaded?

Pi is on the left, Monte is on the right  (Monte is 2 weeks older, Pi is from small lines - polled)

 

Pi:

 

San Clemente (Buckskin)  coloration

 

This animal has phaeomelanic areas that are a rich red, with black markings and.spotting on sides.

Pi is bred to an all black goat with a white spot on her crown and a white spot on her chin.

And to a light red/white ticked - sort of red creamy colored goat. 

Monte - is a heavy white spotted Chamoisee?

 

He is bred to an all white wattled goat and a Chamoisee with little to no spotting.

 

Anything else?  I love the color genetics link!  It is fun postulating!

 

Judy

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Heather vanek]

those are the most beautiful bucks I've ever seen!

[Rachel Whetzel at MigMog Acres]

That sounds like a good description! He's definitely not easy to figure out. Judy's bucks have very nice "base" markings... lol Very interesting tid bit about the moon spots! I didn't even notice Lavender's moonspots until a good month of milking, and it was right under my nose! It will be cool to see if she passes them on.

[Deborah Niemann-Boehle]

I would probably just say that he is "very flashy red and white."

Moonspots originally come from Nubians, and if a doe has even one, she can pass them along to her kids. Funny story -- I had this doe that supposedly had one moonspot. When she was about five years old, she had a very moonspotted kid, and after that, she suddenly busted out with more moonspots on her body, and she started throwing more kids with moonspots. She is the dam of my doe Scarlet, who is crazy moonspotted.

[Rachel Whetzel at MigMog Acres]

I don't have any good pictures of when he was a baby... he wasn't very good about standing still. lol Plus, he's always been super hairy!! lol

In my opinion, *IF* he were to be considered broken anything... I would say he looks like the Light barbari (Dalmatian) pattern  here: http://www.hasitall.com/genetics/ but he doesn't have the black dorsal stripe. Just a spot above his shoulder area. Which made me think (since ALL of his black is at the front) Could he be a VERY VERY broken Buckskin?

No Moonspots. He's either the red you see, white, or black. No other colors.

But that makes me curious: Is Moonspotting a marking from Nubians? Because I have a doe that has ONE moonspot... and now I'm curious about them!

ETA:

I found a couple pics on my blog! Not great ones though...

Deborah Niemann-Boehle said:

You know I never say never, but so far I have not seen a "tri-color" goat that was not actually a broken pattern, such as broken buckskin, broken sundgau, broken chamoisee, etc. -- other than moonspots, which you don't see very often. I am having a hard time seeing a pattern in your buck though. Do you have a pic of him when he was a baby before he got all hairy? Might also be easier to see if he was shaved. There might be some Nubian influence in his coloring, maybe moonspots?

[Deborah Niemann-Boehle]

Nigerians have been in this country for many, many decades, but they have only been registered for the past 20 years. Prior to that, people crossed them with everything out there, which is why NDs have everything in them ... Swiss markings, moon spots, flashy markings, Oberhasli markings, blue eyes, etc ... and that is why AGS still has in their show rules that goats with Roman noses or goats that faint are disqualified. Those things are not in the ADGA rules, which were created less than ten years ago because those things had mostly been bred out by then, although they may still pop up in some goats that have committee-registered goats within the last few generations.

I have completely ignored color, and I have quite the rainbow in my pastures! It just happens.

[Judy Asarkof]

Nubian influence you say for Rachels buck - does anyone know about colors of the original Nigerians? I seem to recall reading they were mostly black and brown.  Are we thinking that todays Nigerians have a lot of other goat in them? Sort of like sheep breeds - a bunch of mixtures creating new breeds to get different looks? 

I spent the whole night tracking down the pedigrees of my boys and looking at the kids produced by the relatives - just for fun!  Most of the goats in the pedigrees are from the "big name" breeders in the area who have terrific websites with all sorts of links and pedigree information and of course- the important stressed udder pictures...

But back to colors - since the goals are to have correct udders and bodies that are strong and dairy-like - one doesn't want to focus too much on color but my goodness - the breed has a lovely variety - how much is original and how much is modern?  Judy

[Deborah Niemann-Boehle]

You know I never say never, but so far I have not seen a "tri-color" goat that was not actually a broken pattern, such as broken buckskin, broken sundgau, broken chamoisee, etc. -- other than moonspots, which you don't see very often. I am having a hard time seeing a pattern in your buck though. Do you have a pic of him when he was a baby before he got all hairy? Might also be easier to see if he was shaved. There might be some Nubian influence in his coloring, maybe moonspots?

[Rachel Whetzel at MigMog Acres]

Here are some photos...

[Rachel Whetzel at MigMog Acres]

Deb, in another thread about coloring, you said mentioned the broken term... but my buck's markings make him look like he's WHITE, with black and brown/red spots. There is no black ridge, etc. Would that still be considered broken, and if so, broken what? lol

[Judy Asarkof]

Hmm - I'll have to look tomorrow to see about the roaning.  He looks identical to his father as far as I can tell - Stonewall Jackson so I'll have to go look at what the breeder has on her page for description.

 

I was interested in seeing when following the discussion on Polled Nigerians that Pi looks almost identical to a relative too although not his father.  I was shocked when doing the research. 

Thanks for helping me get the terminology correct.

Judy