3?-bucks, kids, and integration

Hi y'all-

things are going great with my Nigies. Even the buck is a love bug. My question regarding him is: are bucks always more thick-coated than does? The does all have sleek coats whereas he appears to be wearing a fur coat. I've tried to find pix of bucks but then I can't tell if it is winter where the photo was taken. Looked at your web page, Deborah, but your bucks appear to be shaved (and lovely!) Next question-how do you tame kids who appear uninterested in any treats? Because I am a glutton for punishment, I bought two Lamancha doelings on Friday. They will graze nearby but will not come near me. The Nigies go bug-sh*t crazy if I get out the raisins. The LMs won't touch them. Is this just a "matter of time" thing? My Nigie buckling is only 4 months old and he is a lover! And third...will the Nigies (5 yo, 4yo and 1.5 yo) ever accept the LMs? They aren't actively fighting or anything, though every once in a while one of the Nigies will give a LM a good side butt. The LM seem to be very docile and subservient (if you will) to the Nigies. Is this another "matter of time" thing? And no, due to lack of fenced pasture at this moment, I could not place them side by side. LMs came out of a closed herd and owner provided proof of negative labs, so I had to trust. And one extra question, probably directed at you again, Deborah....how in the world will my buck mount those LMs when the time comes?! Oh and the older buck still has clumpy poo from time to time, even though he got a dose of Copasure, plus valbazen/morantel combo worming. Plan to do another copasure bolus 4 weeks after first one. Should I combo worm him again then, too?

I know that's a lot of questions. Thanks for any advice anyone can offer.

All goats should have slick coats during the summer. Bucks are hairier than does, but if a goat doesn't shed out their undercoat, that is generally a sign of copper deficiency. So, longer hair in bucks is normal, but thicker hair in summer is bad. Have you had your goats long enough to understand what I mean when I'm talking about the undercoat? They generally shed it from March to May in Illinois. And if he is the one with the clumpy poop, copper deficiency can exacerbate a worm problem, so once the copper gets fixed, hopefully he'll respond more positively to the dewormer.

If goats are not friendly, it's better to put them in a small area and offer them grain with you holding the bowl.

As for pecking order within the herd, it will change over time as they figure out who is the herd queen, which may or may not have anything to do with size. With my two LM does, one is the biggest bully, hogging a whole hay feeder for herself, and the other is totally docile and lives very nicely with the NDs.

As for breeding mini LMs, it's good that you started with doelings. Your buck probably won't have any trouble this year, but after this year, you may need to help a bit. Some people put a six-inch platform down for the buck to stand on, and they back up the doe to it. Interestingly enough, whenever I've tried that, it never worked. My bucks haven't always gotten the job done, but when they did, they did it on their own. I have found that they need to be in very good condition to do it though. If they've already bred several does in the past week, they probably won't have enough energy to do it.

Replies

Kare July 24, 2011 at 8:58am

Hi Jackie,

It looks like Deborah has answered all of your questions already, but I thought I would suggest that you shave your buck and see what the hair underneath looks like...

Also, you could see if the bucks will eat some raw garlic out of your hand. That will help their immune system fight worms until their copper gets back up again. It won't kill them all, but it will help. It could also be diet change that causes the clumpy poo. If they are eating different things from the pasture on different days or you have introduced a new food.
Deborah Niemann-Boehle July 24, 2011 at 8:44am

Ah! I had a buck like that once, and I rubbed sunflower oil on him every day for about a week, and his skin seemed fine after that. I also gave him about 1/4 c. sunflower seeds daily for a week at the same time. Skin problems can be a zinc deficiency, and sunflower seeds have a good amount of zinc in them.

Jackie K said:

Actually, I meant to say chunks of *skin*-not hair. Just really large particles of skin flakes. But although everyone is itchy, I've not seen any "critters" crawling on them.
Jackie K July 23, 2011 at 9:05pm

Actually, I meant to say chunks of *skin*-not hair. Just really large particles of skin flakes. But although everyone is itchy, I've not seen any "critters" crawling on them.
Deborah Niemann-Boehle July 23, 2011 at 8:06pm

Chunks of hair sounds like he's losing his undercoat. If you've given them copper oxide wire particles, there isn't much more you can do for about a month, so you're on the right track. I usually would see a difference in the coat after about two weeks, so hopefully those chunks will start to fall out soon.

And thank you very much for the donation! I was looking through the membership list today trying to figure out who it was, so I'm glad you told me it was you! I'll get your soap in the mail Monday. Thanks again!
Jackie K July 23, 2011 at 7:25pm

I don't think he has an undercoat per se, like a dog does. Just long hair and nasty chunks of old hair in it. I do believe all the Nigies are copper deficient but I hesitate to replace it too fast. I decided to try something for tonight-all the little ones, meaning LMs, littlest Nigie doe, and baby Nigie buck are together and the two older does are in with the grown buck. It's OK with me if the older does get bred now-rather learn about kidding from the more experienced does before I start dealing with FFs. And I truly don't think the baby buck can breed anyone right now, though I may come to regret that statement. I just want to give the LM doelings a break from all the hostility. The LM doelings are getting braver and I think they will becme friendlier as they adjust. Of course, one had a nice clumpy poo this evening but I sort of expected that. I love the Nigies but I have to say I am drawn to the LMs too!
And Deborah-to show my appreciation for this site and all your help we made a donation today. Oddly, payapl wouldn't take my visa so it came from my husband's mc. His name is Steven K. I really do appreciate you taking the time to answer questions when we have not purchased goats from you. But I've learned...
Deborah Niemann-Boehle July 23, 2011 at 10:22am

All goats should have slick coats during the summer. Bucks are hairier than does, but if a goat doesn't shed out their undercoat, that is generally a sign of copper deficiency. So, longer hair in bucks is normal, but thicker hair in summer is bad. Have you had your goats long enough to understand what I mean when I'm talking about the undercoat? They generally shed it from March to May in Illinois. And if he is the one with the clumpy poop, copper deficiency can exacerbate a worm problem, so once the copper gets fixed, hopefully he'll respond more positively to the dewormer.

If goats are not friendly, it's better to put them in a small area and offer them grain with you holding the bowl.

As for pecking order within the herd, it will change over time as they figure out who is the herd queen, which may or may not have anything to do with size. With my two LM does, one is the biggest bully, hogging a whole hay feeder for herself, and the other is totally docile and lives very nicely with the NDs.

As for breeding mini LMs, it's good that you started with doelings. Your buck probably won't have any trouble this year, but after this year, you may need to help a bit. Some people put a six-inch platform down for the buck to stand on, and they back up the doe to it. Interestingly enough, whenever I've tried that, it never worked. My bucks haven't always gotten the job done, but when they did, they did it on their own. I have found that they need to be in very good condition to do it though. If they've already bred several does in the past week, they probably won't have enough energy to do it.

This reply was deleted.