Nigerian Dwarf Dairy Goats

for people who love the littlest dairy goats

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Deborah Niemann-Boehle replied to Marie Olson's discussion Getting a buckling!! Yay! Now, how to house..
"Here is an excerpt on rotational grazing from my book:"
21 hours ago
Deborah Niemann-Boehle replied to Marie Olson's discussion Getting a buckling!! Yay! Now, how to house..
"You do actually need multiple goat pens so that you can rotate them between pens. There are already some discussions on here about rotational grazing, and there is a lot about it in my book (Raising Goats Naturally). If you keep them in one single…"
21 hours ago
Deborah Niemann-Boehle replied to Juliana Goodwin's discussion Double dosing wormers
"I know they double the dose of Safeguard when treating meningeal worm, and that does not hurt the goat, but I do not know about other dewormers. If a regular dose is not killing the worms, it is unlikely that a higher dose would do it once you have…"
Deborah Niemann-Boehle replied to Juliana Goodwin's discussion Double dosing wormers
"Cattle dosage is doubled for goats on everything except levasol (levamisole), which is only increased by 1.5 times. Yes, it is scary the first time you do it, but so far I have not heard of anyone having a problem with using 2-3 dewormers at one…"
Deborah Niemann-Boehle replied to Paula Kirk's discussion Tetanus
"Some people would give a tetanus booster in this very situation, even if it was not due yet. So, there is no reason for you to delay giving it after an injury."
Deborah Niemann-Boehle replied to Judy Asarkof's discussion Comments on late cut hay
"I generally keep looking and buy the best thing I can find. If this is the best you can find, then go for it. You can always add alfalfa pellets to increase nutrition in their diet, if necessary."
Deborah Niemann-Boehle replied to Karen Espalin's discussion Newbie wondering if I should do what my vet says about coccidia
"If the goats do not have diarrhea and are not obviously ill, then I wouldn't worry about coccidia, especially since you have already treated with Corid. It is actually quite unusual for adults to have a problem with coccidiosis. There are…"
Deborah Niemann-Boehle replied to Nicholas Windsor's discussion Cloudy Eye from cheat grass
"Some people will do that, but when it is just one distinct little spot like that, I don't."
Deborah Niemann-Boehle replied to Karen Espalin's discussion Newbie wondering if I should do what my vet says about coccidia
"Wow! That is a lot to deal with right off the bat! I have never heard anyone recommend putting a coccidiostat in water for 21 days AFTER treating for coccidia. If the Corid worked, they do not need it in their water for 21 days. If the Corid did not…"
Deborah Niemann-Boehle replied to Dee's discussion how much lespedeza...
"Only the sericea lespedeza has been studied."
Deborah Niemann-Boehle replied to Dee's discussion how much lespedeza...
"There is no minimum requirement currently available. The research simply shows that the more lespedeza they eat, the fewer parasite problems they have. If they have a diet of almost exclusively eating lespedeza,they have almost zero parasite…"
Deborah Niemann-Boehle commented on Deborah Niemann-Boehle's photo

kid in coat

"It fits nice and snuggly without riding up from the back. The back is open, so you do not have to worry about poop. Although you do not have to worry about pee with doelings, you do have to make sure the penis is exposed on bucklings, which just…"
Deborah Niemann-Boehle replied to Nicholas Windsor's discussion Cloudy Eye from cheat grass
"That is an infection. Eye infections in goats uually take a couple of weeks to go away, and people argue about whether or not treating with antibiotics do any good, as it always seems to take about two weeks regardless of what you do. It probably…"
Michael Garwood commented on Deborah Niemann-Boehle's photo

kid in coat

"Deborah, How do you keep the coat from "riding up" towards the head? Did you cut leg holes at the back too? And what allowances are there for the "business" part of the back end of the kid? Did you cut away the part of the sleeve…"
Deborah Niemann-Boehle replied to Jabe Thomas's discussion I'm Selling a Goat... Help
"I don't wean does or wethers until the day they are sold. I see no point in putting them the stress of weaning and then the stress of going to a new home. I don't think any of my goats have ever had any problems because of this. Actually…"
Jul 21
Deborah Niemann-Boehle replied to Julia @Woody Glen Farm's discussion Coccidiosis over and over. Advice for keeping kids feet out of feeders?
"I know it sounds crazy, but keeping the barn clean (when they have to stay inside) really is the key. When a more experienced person first told me that, I thought she was crazy! It's a barn! But throwing down more straw daily was the only thing…"
Jul 19

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Deborah Niemann-Boehle's Discussions

Using DE as a dewormer

Started Apr 9 0 Replies

Here is an article that summarizes many of the studies done on the use of diatomaceous earth (DE) as a dewormer:…Continue

Tags: DE, parasites, worms

Week one weight gain

Started this discussion. Last reply by Myra Isaac Feb 20. 3 Replies

People have asked about newborn weight gain in the past, and I've said multiple times that I want to keep track of a kids' weights at some point, but I never got around to it ... until now! Actually…Continue

Nutrients in weeds

Started this discussion. Last reply by Chaverah Farm Dec 4, 2013. 1 Reply

Next time a new member talks about ripping up the weeds in their pasture and planting grass, we need to point them to this study:…Continue

Tags: alfalfa, grass, hay, pasture

ND color genetics

Started Oct 31, 2013 0 Replies

For those of you who are interested in ND colors, this site spells it all out: fun!Continue

Tags: color

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At 6:25pm on June 11, 2014, Dave Marschang said…

yeah I have a hell of a time on here knowing when someones replied to something

At 8:56pm on June 9, 2014, Dave Marschang said…

the lamancha doe is very gentle with ginny, and ginny actually seems to enjoy the attention. she appears to be a very gentle giant and even against the other lamancha does her threats seem pathetically gentle. and yes we do want a buck, I don't know that as beginners we need a $600 buck to start. your worst quality buck is 100 times better than the barnyard mutts we have around here so something on the cheaper side will work for us. what do you have available? you website gave me the impression all bucks were sold.


At 7:38pm on June 3, 2014, Dave Marschang said…

well a 6 yr old Lamancha has apparently taking a likin to Ginny, she follows her around pushing her across the stall with her head, then she will stick her head under Ginnys backend and lift her in the air. Not sure what any of that means but Ginny just stands there patiently and takes it. everyone is still doing good and Ginnys diarrhea appears to have gotten better. we have plenty of room at this farm for a buck and will be seriously looking to purchase one soon, not sure if you have any available or not but, will probably be calling soon.

At 10:00am on June 1, 2014, Dave Marschang said…

oh my god! Gertrude never shuts up! typical female......anyway thought I would let you know the girls are fitting in just fine, they get to meet the lamanchas today. Ginny has a little bit of diarrhea. we gave her probios yesterday so we will see what happens. while neither will take treats from us yet, Ginny is much more skittish than Gertrude so it makes sense to us that she would be the one with diarrhea. we don't think its anything to worry about yet.

At 8:01pm on May 17, 2014, Lyn Adams said…
Hey Deborah, I'd think your opinion on this, a member needs to find a home for her two withers. Do you think it would be a problem if I took them in, right now I have 4 , I was just concerned about them all being together . Can you help?
At 7:55pm on May 7, 2014, Dave Marschang said…

sorry deb just seen the message about reporting the spam to you, but cant find it anymore.

At 7:04am on March 6, 2014, Donna Peck said…

Hi Deborah! Thanks for the welcome. It's good to know that there are people in our corner of the world who are also Nigerian Dwarf owners/enthusiasts! Thank you.

At 7:21pm on February 15, 2014, Juliana Goodwin said…

Hi Deborah I am so sorry!!  I hardly ever use that gmail account anymore and I haven't seen any of this until just now. 

Thank you for letting me know about Lizzie's buck- I am regretfully going to have to pass on him though.  I really had my heart set on the Charlotte buck...I hope I didn't hold you up in advertising him.  I will just forfeit my deposit in case there was any inconvenience in my slow reply.  thanks so much for letting me know.

At 10:44pm on October 26, 2013, Glenna Rose said…

Thank you so much for the link, Deborah!  I already posted it on facebook where my "friends" are already familiar with the antics of mine.  Drug-fighting goats rock!

At 8:06pm on October 8, 2013, Myra Isaac said…
Yes, I'm a Kansas girl! :) I would love to meet you as well!! We're about 5.5 hours from Lawrence in the southwest corner of the state so it's a bit of a drive.

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Update on everything!

Yikes! July is already more than half done! My knee has finally improved enough that I am able to do about 80% of what I normally can do, which is really great news for me and everyone else here.

My baby daughter has flown the coop big time! Even though she had been at the University of Illinois for the past two years, that was less than two hours away. On Friday she moved all the way to Ft. Collins to begin work on her Ph.D. at Colorado State.

And here are a few pictures of things happening around the farm....

We have been teaching Tinker the yearling lady llama to lead, and she is doing splendidly! I never dreamed I would ever have a llama as friendly as her. Most are quite aloof, but Tinker is a true sweetheart, loving attention ...

We just moved the youngest batch of chickens out of the barn and into their bottomless pen (a.k.a. chicken tractor) ...

And the ducklings that hatched a month ago are growing so fast ...

Hope to get another update out before another month passes!

Updates around the farm

Life moves on around here at lightening speed this time of year, regardless of whether anyone is injured or sick or if something gets broken.

I am happy to say that Charlotte is doing very well. She came home the day I slipped and fell in the bathroom, so I have not been able to spend any time with her as it was rather challenging for me to walk more than a few steps after falling and landing on my knee. Mike and the girls took Charlotte's boys out to see her after she got back, but no one seemed to recognize anyone. The kids were only a day and a half old when Charlotte was taken to the University, and she stayed there for a week, so I knew it would be asking for a little miracle for them to recognize each other, but I wanted to at least try. So, the boys are drinking goat milk from a bottle.

Speaking of my knee, I went to the ortho doc a week after falling again, and he talked me into a cortisone injection. After the injection, he said that he would expect it to flare up and get worse for a couple of days. It did flare up, but unfortunately, it lasted for more than two or three days. It is improving a little now, a full week after the injection, but I am still unable to do anything without it swelling up even worse. Physical therapy is supposed to start next Wednesday, but I am not terribly hopeful unless the swelling goes down.

Silver fir tree tomato plant at sundown

We are still planting in the garden, and we are not being helped by a rabbit or two (or five) that is eating bedding plants or newly sprouted seeds. Something ate almost all of our lemon squash plants, as well as a few pepper plants and eggplant plants. Mike chased a rabbit out of the garden yesterday and sealed up the hole in the fence that it came through, but I'm not terribly sure that there are not more of them hiding in the garden area. There are a few places with very tall weeds where they could be living.

Yesterday, 52 baby cockerels arrived from Cackle Hatchery. They are being raised for meat. We were not able to hatch enough chicks this year, so I finally got tired of waiting and ordered some males.

Buff Orpingtons at six weeks of age

We sold the eight Delaware chickens that we hatched, and we have some buff Orpingtons that are now about six weeks old, and we have moved them into a chicken tractor. Once the pullets are big enough, we will integrate them into the laying flock, and the few males that are in there will be used for meat.

Six-week old heritage turkeys, mostly Royal Palm

We moved our turkey poults into a moveable pen also. As they get larger, we will split the group and move half of them into another pen so they are not crowded.

And last but not least, the ducks are doing a good job of reproducing this year. We only have four females, but two have hatched ducklings already! All males will become dinner while the females will be kept to lay eggs next next, as well as to make more ducklings. Yes, the mama is white while the babies are black. We have a black Cayuga drake so we're assuming these are all his babies.

Llama spa day

The following post was actually written on Sunday, June 8, and I only needed to add photos and video, but on Tuesday morning, June 10, I slipped and fell on the tile floor in our bathroom, on my already injured knee, of course. So I lost whatever progress I'd made over the last few weeks and am back to doing nothing outside. Let's just end this part of the post by saying that my orthopedic surgeon is getting to know me really well.

Sitara and Tinker after shearing.
Sunday, June 8 did not start out very well. At 9:00 Mike walked in and said that Katy (the person not the llama) just told him that the llama shearer was coming today. Oops! Yeah, I had forgotten to tell him, but I said not to worry because he wasn't supposed to be here until 10:00. And then I looked out the window and saw a pickup truck and trailer driving very slowly in front of our house. "I hope that's not him," I said, half joking. Guess what! It was him!

Luckily, Oscar the yearling llama is close to the house and very easy to catch, so Mike grabbed him while the shearer was setting up. Before the shearer was done with him, Mike brought up Merlin the llama that guards the sheep. And then things got complicated.

Catching the last three was not easy, so the shearer volunteered to help. Mike, Katy, Kat, the shearer, and his assistant went into the pasture. (I didn't help because I'd had gall bladder surgery 12 days earlier and was not supposed to be lifting anything heavier than ten pounds.) When Tinker the yearling female got fairly close to Mike, he lunged and wrapped his arms around her neck. He was not expecting her mother Sitara to go into full-on llama attack guard mode! Everyone watching says that Mike sustained a few good mama llama kicks before he had his other arm wrapped around her neck, and then the shearer ran up and got the halter and lead rope on mama Sitara. Mike wound up with llama spit on him from mama, but he doesn't have any real injuries from the ordeal.

Sitara sounded the alarm the moment that Mike grabbed her baby, and she never stopped until the two of them were in a stall together. That means she screamed the entire time she was being sheared, even though we were holding her daughter right there next to her. And she continued screaming while we were shearing her daughter. She quieted down once we put the two of them in a stall, but a few minutes later, Kat walked past, and Sitara let out a good scream. And because words simply cannot do justice when describing a llama scream, I took a few seconds of video for you ...

Catching Dolce was pretty easy because he hates Merlin, so Mike's brilliant idea was to take Merlin into the pasture neighboring Dolce's, and Dolce immediately came running up to the gate. Kat was leading Merlin and started to back away because she could hear Merlin regurgitating and getting read to start spitting at Dolce.

Katy, who has only been on the farm for a couple of weeks, said that the llamas were "really scary." Yep, that's why we have them! They are here to guard the sheep and goats from coyotes, and they are extremely good at their jobs.

After shearing Merlin was returned to the sheep pasture, Oscar was returned to the side yard, and Dolce was returned to the back 20. Sitara was put in the pasture with Dolce for breeding, and her daughter was kept in the barn so that we can work with her, training her to lead.

Abby kidded!

Abby is one of our second-generation mini lamanchas. Yes, I know she does not have lamancha ears, but that can happen when you get into the second generation of crosses. I did not intentionally breed her, but in mid-January we discovered all of the bucks loose. Normally the bucks don't bother busting through a fence unless there is a doe in heat, so we marked the calendar, and two weeks ago when my daughter Kat was trimming hooves on our dry does, she noticed an udder forming on Abby. We checked the calendar and realized she would be due in a couple of weeks, which brings us to today.

Katy the intern noticed that Abby was much more talkative than normal this morning, and she became more talkative as the day went on. So, this afternoon, Kat, Katy, and I planted ourselves in the barn to keep an eye on her. Then I realized I needed to come into the house to put medicine on my knee, and eventually Kat came inside, and finally Katy also gave up on her. We had the baby monitor on, but it's in my bedroom. We could hear it from all over the house and assumed that we would know when someone needed to check on her again.

I sat in the living room checking Facebook with my phone, and when the battery was down to 1%, I asked Kat to take it upstairs and plug it in for me. A few seconds after she walked into my bedroom, she screamed, "There's a baby! It's a baby!" and came running downstairs. Kat and Katy ran to the barn and I hobbled along after them.

Even though she is a first freshener, Abby did a fine job of giving birth to two little doelings and getting them mostly clean.

Kat and Katy each took a towel and helped her out a little. The belted doeling started nursing in no time, and her little sister was not far behind.

We are already very impressed with Abby's udder and orifices. Her udder was very large and tight before she kidded, so Kat milked her out after kidding (after her kids' tummies were quite full) and was really impressed with her whole mammary system.

Charlotte update

The last 24 hours has been such a whirlwind of challenges and decisions, I had to go back and read yesterday's blog post before writing this one because I didn't remember where I had left off. Charlotte is still at U of I and still alive for now, but they don't know what is wrong with her. They are giving her drugs that are supposed to help her blood clot -- both modern medicine and Chinese medicine.

After I posted yesterday's message, they completed two transfusions. The first one brought her PCV (packed cell volume) from 15 to 22, and the second transfusion brought it from 22 to 33. They thought that she would be in good shape at least until morning, but I got a phone call shortly before 10 p.m. with the news that her PCV had already dropped back down to 25! They felt that she must be hemorrhaging badly and said that if her PCV continued to drop that fast, she would be dead very soon. They asked for permission to do surgery immediately. I asked for a few minutes to discuss it with my family before deciding.

I called Katherine my daughter who had raised Charlotte and who had spent the whole day with her at the clinic. When I asked if we should go forward with the surgery, she simply replied, "It's Charlotte."

"Yeah, that says a lot, doesn't it," I replied.

And then Katherine offered to help pay the vet bills, which had already climbed to more than $750 and would completely eclipse $1000 with surgery. How could I say "no" at that point? I called the vet back and said to do the surgery. It seemed likely that Charlotte would need more blood, so in the dark of night, we went out into the pasture to find our two largest goats who would be the donors. Mike and Jonathan were lifting goats, and when Jonathan offered me one, I was about to take it until Mike yelled, reminding me that because of my gall bladder surgery I'm not supposed to lift anything heavier than 10 pounds for two weeks. Jonathan headed down to the clinic with Cowboy and Etta in a dog crate on the back of the pickup, arriving shortly after midnight.

Katherine headed back to the vet hospital from her home in Urbana and sat in the waiting room until past 1 a.m. when they finished the surgery.

The verdict: nothing. They looked everywhere and could find nothing bleeding internally. The vet explained there are only three reasons for such a low PCV:
   1) blood is being lost
   2) red blood cells are being destroyed by the body, which can occur during an infection
   3) the body is not making red blood cells

Since they found nothing bleeding, #2 sounds like a viable option because Charlotte does have a raging infection that required IV antibiotics to treat. However, because her PCV was falling so rapidly, if her body was destroying red blood cells, the vet said that he would also expect her to be terribly jaundiced, which she is not.

Having just endured abdominal surgery myself, I was feeling really guilty for having put Charlotte through that for absolutely no good reason. Of course, I had to remind myself that had we not agreed to surgery and she died, I would have felt even more guilty. I feel like I am in a no-win situation right now. And I am in good company because the vets have no idea what is happening either. They can simply watch her symptoms and keep treating them as they occur.

The really strange thing is that her PCV actually stabilized after the surgery and sat at 24 from last night until this afternoon when it started to drop again. It is now down to 20. If it gets down to 17, they will do another transfusion using the blood from one of our goats.

Someone on Facebook suggested that this might be caused by something as simple as intestinal worms, but they did a fecal and said that there is no way that her worm load could possible explain the dramatic drop in PCV she has been experiencing.

I should have been taking notes when the vet called because she was sharing so much information. She went over all of the different blood work, basically saying, "if x, then y" such as the number of immature white blood cells is decreasing and the mature number is increasing, which means she is losing less blood than yesterday. They might think that she had a bleeding ulcer except that they would expect her appetite to be non-existent, and she does eat fairly well, although not as much as normal. Still, they are treating her with an ulcer drug (a gastro protectant), just in case. They ruled out so many possible causes, it was mind boggling.

Katherine will be heading back to the clinic first thing in the morning. The staff and students said that Charlotte's demeanor obviously brightens when she is there. And Katherine said that Charlotte seems to be the students' favorite patient at the moment. Everyone talks about how sweet she is. While Katherine is there, she milks her and she reads to her just as she did seven years ago when Charlotte was a baby living in Katherine's bedroom. When she reads to her, Katherine said that Charlotte lays her head on her lap and falls asleep. What does one read to a goat? Maureen Johnson's novel, The Madness Underneath: Book 2 on Kindle.

So, we just continue to wait ...

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