Your first goat birth!

[Deborah Niemann-Boehle]

I just posted a pictorial of Sherri's birth on the Antiquity Oaks Facebook page, and someone said that it would have been nice to see pictures like that before her first goat birth, because she thought that bag of red-tinged fluid meant something was wrong. Anyway, I thought it would be fun to share the stories of our first births, along with what we learned.

All three of our does were due the same week, and we thought another goat was going to give birth soon. So, I sent my human kids out to check on her. My daughter, who was 10 at the time, said, "Oh, she's fine, but Fannie is trying to poop and can't." I knew exactly what that meant! She's pushing! So I went running out there, and sure enough Fannie gave birth to buck-doe twins a few minutes later!

One of the things we learned in those first births is that the kids don't have to be lined up like the books say they do. We had a book with us that said the head and two hooves should be presenting. If it was a head and only one hoof, that meant the other leg was back, and you'd have to assist. So, when we were watching Fannie push, we saw a head and a hoof and started to freak out. I looked at my daughter and said that I shouldn't do it because my hands hadn't been washed. She said the same thing. As we discussed who should go wash their hands, the kid plopped out. Since then, I've seen dozens of kids born with only one hoof presenting, and they've all been birthed just fine by their mother with no help from anyone.

[Jane Wagman]

Sounds like heaven to me!

Mystery finally kidded about 2:15pm - one colorful doe kid and a lovely black & white buck kid. I'll post in the birth announcement section when I have pictures ready.




Deborah Niemann-Boehle said:

Oh, my! I hope she kids soon! I know how you feel.

We have two barns, and the smaller one -- which has a small heated room and toilet in it -- was just filled with junk. I finally convinced my husband to build kidding pens for me in there. It is so much nicer than sitting in a freezing barn or running through the rain or snow in the middle of the night when I hear screaming on the monitor.



Jane Wagman said:

Believe me I've tried that! The barn is 101 ft from the house - but the baby monitor doesn't get anything but static. If I ever win the lottery I am so building a big barn with CCTV, hot water and a dedicated climate controlled space for me to sleep in when I'm waiting on does to kid.

I was up all night with my very restless doe who didn't shut up ALL night! (And who still hasn't kidded yet!) Hubby would kick me out of the house if he had to listen to that racket! :)

[Deborah Niemann-Boehle]

Oh, my! I hope she kids soon! I know how you feel.

We have two barns, and the smaller one -- which has a small heated room and toilet in it -- was just filled with junk. I finally convinced my husband to build kidding pens for me in there. It is so much nicer than sitting in a freezing barn or running through the rain or snow in the middle of the night when I hear screaming on the monitor.



Jane Wagman said:

Believe me I've tried that! The barn is 101 ft from the house - but the baby monitor doesn't get anything but static. If I ever win the lottery I am so building a big barn with CCTV, hot water and a dedicated climate controlled space for me to sleep in when I'm waiting on does to kid.

I was up all night with my very restless doe who didn't shut up ALL night! (And who still hasn't kidded yet!) Hubby would kick me out of the house if he had to listen to that racket! :)

[Jane Wagman]

Believe me I've tried that! The barn is 101 ft from the house - but the baby monitor doesn't get anything but static. If I ever win the lottery I am so building a big barn with CCTV, hot water and a dedicated climate controlled space for me to sleep in when I'm waiting on does to kid.

I was up all night with my very restless doe who didn't shut up ALL night! (And who still hasn't kidded yet!) Hubby would kick me out of the house if he had to listen to that racket! :)

[Deborah Niemann-Boehle]

The $15 baby monitor will at least give you audio.
Deborah


Jane Wagman said:

I can so relate - I've got a doe that is on day 148 (almost 149 since it is nearly midnight) and on day 145 she refused breakfast and was puffy and showing signs of dilation even though her ligs were still there - soft - but still there. She normally is a chow hound so I figured - hey we will have kids this afternoon..... I swear she is enjoying making me wait and wonder. Makes me wish I could afford a barn camera so I wasn't getting up to make those middle of the night checks.

[Jane Wagman]

I can so relate - I've got a doe that is on day 148 (almost 149 since it is nearly midnight) and on day 145 she refused breakfast and was puffy and showing signs of dilation even though her ligs were still there - soft - but still there. She normally is a chow hound so I figured - hey we will have kids this afternoon..... I swear she is enjoying making me wait and wonder. Makes me wish I could afford a barn camera so I wasn't getting up to make those middle of the night checks.

[Tammy]

Thank you so much. I feel better. Site was very helpful. My family also looked at it and felt better.

Tammy



Deborah Niemann-Boehle said:

They're fine. I spent so many hours worrying about my goats the first few years. There was one goat that we watched for two days, and I finally decided that I knew nothing, and that we needed to go to town, which we had been postponing for two days. We had just been out there 15 minutes earlier, but I sent my son out to the barn with some veggie left-overs for the rabbits, and he came running back, screaming that there were three kids! So, now I pretty much ignore those "early" signs, because they can last for a week or 10 minutes, and they really don't mean a thing. You can sure drive yourself crazy though. Here is some info about how it can progress, along with pictures, so you can see what they look like when they're serious about giving birth:
http://antiquityoaks.blogspot.com/2008/06/best-laid-plans-of-homest...



Tammy said:

Need advise--My two goats have showed beginning stages of labor for 24 hours. However, last night they were groaning and breathing harder and today they have seemed at a stand still. No breathing hard or groaning, but uncomfortable. Temp was not hot yesterday, so I know that the temp. was not an issue. Our third goat lost her mucouse plug today. However, there are not any other signs. Am I going crazy? I do not notice any stress, other than at times they are up or down and seem uncomfortable. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

[Deborah Niemann-Boehle]

They're fine. I spent so many hours worrying about my goats the first few years. There was one goat that we watched for two days, and I finally decided that I knew nothing, and that we needed to go to town, which we had been postponing for two days. We had just been out there 15 minutes earlier, but I sent my son out to the barn with some veggie left-overs for the rabbits, and he came running back, screaming that there were three kids! So, now I pretty much ignore those "early" signs, because they can last for a week or 10 minutes, and they really don't mean a thing. You can sure drive yourself crazy though. Here is some info about how it can progress, along with pictures, so you can see what they look like when they're serious about giving birth:
http://antiquityoaks.blogspot.com/2008/06/best-laid-plans-of-homest...



Tammy said:

Need advise--My two goats have showed beginning stages of labor for 24 hours. However, last night they were groaning and breathing harder and today they have seemed at a stand still. No breathing hard or groaning, but uncomfortable. Temp was not hot yesterday, so I know that the temp. was not an issue. Our third goat lost her mucouse plug today. However, there are not any other signs. Am I going crazy? I do not notice any stress, other than at times they are up or down and seem uncomfortable. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

[Tammy]

Need advise--My two goats have showed beginning stages of labor for 24 hours. However, last night they were groaning and breathing harder and today they have seemed at a stand still. No breathing hard or groaning, but uncomfortable. Temp was not hot yesterday, so I know that the temp. was not an issue. Our third goat lost her mucouse plug today. However, there are not any other signs. Am I going crazy? I do not notice any stress, other than at times they are up or down and seem uncomfortable. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

[Tammy]

Thanks so much. The only advantage I have is that I am a (human) nurse. I have NG Tubed people, but not an animal. So it sounds like what I have usually done, except it's through the mouth, not the nose. I just wanted to be prepared in case, but don't plan on actually doing it. Looking back--one of our doelings that died needed to be warmed more.

Thanks so much,

Tammy

Deborah Niemann-Boehle said:

I've tubed a few babies, but it's tricky, and if you do it wrong, you could put liquid in the lungs, which would kill it almost immediately. It goes down the mouth, but you have to make sure it goes down to the stomach and not the lungs, and that's not something I'd want to describe on here. It's too easy to make a mistake with it if you've never done it before or seen it done. I would avoid tubing a kid at all costs if you don't have someone to show you how to do it, because in most cases, you don't really need to do it. I think some experienced people do it because it's quick and easy for them. I haven't tubed a kid in about five years now, because I would rather work with it to get it over the hump that caused the problem.

Hypothermia is probably one of the most common reasons for a kid to not suck. If a kid is limp, and you stick your finger in the kid's mouth, and it's like ice water, then you need to put the kid in warm water (about 105-110 degrees) and hold it there until the mouth feels warm inside, which might take about 10-20 minutes, depending upon exactly how cold the kid had been. Do NOT wrap a kid in a heating pad, because you can overheat it a lot faster than you think, which would cause seizures and death.

Keep in mind that 99% of ND births go perfectly fine. The only thing you need to do is dry off the kids if it's cold out. The second and third year we had goats, we "thought" we had so many problems and wound up doing all kinds of things, based upon advice from well-meaning breeders through the Internet. In the last five years -- through about 80 births (200 kids) -- we've assisted in the delivery of two kids. In one case, it was a first freshener that should not have been bred because she was too small, and in the other case, the kid was posterior AND breech.

If a kid can swallow, I wouldn't tube it today, even if it wasn't sucking well. Once it gets a little colostrum in its tummy, it will perk up and have the strength to suck. I don't really have any magical numbers for anything -- like colostrum in the first hour -- because I don't wear a watch in the barn, so I have no idea how long anything takes usually. I pay attention to the kid and how it's doing. If it's bouncing around and trying, I don't worry about it. But if it's really lethargic and trying to go to sleep, I'll give it a cc or two of NutriDrench. We had a pair of twin does one time that were trying to fall asleep from the time they were five minutes old, and we spent three hours getting them going, but we did it without tubing them, and they were fine.

I can kind of understand how you feel. We just had our first llama birth here yesterday, and I was a Nervous Nellie, calling or emailing three different llama breeders, asking if everything sounded normal! The little guy survived his first 24 hours with flying colors and was running around the pasture today, so yeah, everything was normal.

Try not to worry too much! Hope this has helped some!


Tammy said:

Hi! I was wondering if anybody has actually had to use the syringe/plastic tubing to feed the babies colostrum due to not sucking good or not getting the colostrum in the first hour? Our doe is almost due and she had four kids last time. One of them died related to the cold weather and one refused to suck. Any ideals for this time? I am really nervous that I won't do the right thing. Do you put the tubing down the throat instead of the nose (like a human)? Need advice..

Deborah Niemann-Boehle said:

You're welcome! You might also like to watch the video we made of Carmen's birth:
http://nigeriandwarfgoats.ning.com/video/carmens-birth

[Deborah Niemann-Boehle]

I've tubed a few babies, but it's tricky, and if you do it wrong, you could put liquid in the lungs, which would kill it almost immediately. It goes down the mouth, but you have to make sure it goes down to the stomach and not the lungs, and that's not something I'd want to describe on here. It's too easy to make a mistake with it if you've never done it before or seen it done. I would avoid tubing a kid at all costs if you don't have someone to show you how to do it, because in most cases, you don't really need to do it. I think some experienced people do it because it's quick and easy for them. I haven't tubed a kid in about five years now, because I would rather work with it to get it over the hump that caused the problem.

Hypothermia is probably one of the most common reasons for a kid to not suck. If a kid is limp, and you stick your finger in the kid's mouth, and it's like ice water, then you need to put the kid in warm water (about 105-110 degrees) and hold it there until the mouth feels warm inside, which might take about 10-20 minutes, depending upon exactly how cold the kid had been. Do NOT wrap a kid in a heating pad, because you can overheat it a lot faster than you think, which would cause seizures and death.

Keep in mind that 99% of ND births go perfectly fine. The only thing you need to do is dry off the kids if it's cold out. The second and third year we had goats, we "thought" we had so many problems and wound up doing all kinds of things, based upon advice from well-meaning breeders through the Internet. In the last five years -- through about 80 births (200 kids) -- we've assisted in the delivery of two kids. In one case, it was a first freshener that should not have been bred because she was too small, and in the other case, the kid was posterior AND breech.

If a kid can swallow, I wouldn't tube it today, even if it wasn't sucking well. Once it gets a little colostrum in its tummy, it will perk up and have the strength to suck. I don't really have any magical numbers for anything -- like colostrum in the first hour -- because I don't wear a watch in the barn, so I have no idea how long anything takes usually. I pay attention to the kid and how it's doing. If it's bouncing around and trying, I don't worry about it. But if it's really lethargic and trying to go to sleep, I'll give it a cc or two of NutriDrench. We had a pair of twin does one time that were trying to fall asleep from the time they were five minutes old, and we spent three hours getting them going, but we did it without tubing them, and they were fine.

I can kind of understand how you feel. We just had our first llama birth here yesterday, and I was a Nervous Nellie, calling or emailing three different llama breeders, asking if everything sounded normal! The little guy survived his first 24 hours with flying colors and was running around the pasture today, so yeah, everything was normal.

Try not to worry too much! Hope this has helped some!


Tammy said:

Hi! I was wondering if anybody has actually had to use the syringe/plastic tubing to feed the babies colostrum due to not sucking good or not getting the colostrum in the first hour? Our doe is almost due and she had four kids last time. One of them died related to the cold weather and one refused to suck. Any ideals for this time? I am really nervous that I won't do the right thing. Do you put the tubing down the throat instead of the nose (like a human)? Need advice..

Deborah Niemann-Boehle said:

You're welcome! You might also like to watch the video we made of Carmen's birth:
http://nigeriandwarfgoats.ning.com/video/carmens-birth