unknown problem in expectant doe

I'd appreciate very much your opinions and ideas on the matter of my son's doe. For the past 36 hrs. I've done a great deal of reading on pregnancy toxemia & hypocalcemia in goats.

Yesterday morn my son's doe (not known date/looking very close to term) looked off in behavior and in appetite. I cancelled my away from home work to stay home & observe her. She did little walking and little eating/drinking, and was lethargic and almost like her mind wasn't engages much. Eyelid mucosa looking ok. no fever or other ill symptoms. The kids were _quite_ lively for about an hour. At first I thought she may be entering active labor.

~She was given BS molasses water and drank it. ~No interest in her usual feed (goat chow, BOss, alfalfa pellets, minerals) or in any goodies (oatmeal, fruit, crackers, brown sugar etc.), but slow-mind interest in hay intermittently through the day. Picked up propylene glycol (in case needed later) and ketone sticks form a vet. negative result on keytone strips (x4). Urine dark colored; nose still damp; eyes moist. Today: interest in going outdoors and has alertness not present yesterday. eaten hay with a little more enthusiasm but still no interest in regular feed or goodies. I suspect she feels full. ? She ate 1 slice of banana (a raving maniac for them usually,) but no further interest. She has eaten one cracker and no more. She chews slow, and almost like she might not keep it in her mouth but then she does and swallows it. Also I've entertained a wonder--- is it possible she is getting dehydrated enough to make swallowing not as smooth a function? -I'd think she be in pretty poor shape long before that? Today her nose feels not as moist. She did drink some brown sugar water in the late afternoon.

I drenched her with some sweetened milk in the middle of the night, and gave her TSC Goat Nutri-Drench in the evening & this morning. I'm ready to go out again to give her some Nutri-drench (also try & catch another sample /offer another wakeful time period to eat some hay). Would it be a good idea to add to it some salt (to inspire more fluid intake) and add probiotics & plain yogurt?

The vet came by today and checked her out- eyelid color ok, no fever, respiratory/heart are fine, no idea what is up (the eve before from what I had told him he was suspecting toxemia) but best guess now is she ate something disagreeable to her...2nd guess would be that its possible the toxemia onset was reversed some. He advises me to keep checking ketones as long as she is off and to go ahead and worm her as it will do no harm. I had held off worming her today to see if she would recover some more first. I have Safeguard horse paste.

She has lost weight in 2 days : ( I have not weighed her - but I routinely look at her condition and so I see it, and also feel her ribs in a way that has a more sharp feel to them.

Thank you for reading all this and sharing your wisdom!

Sandra Hess, CPM

Heartland Midwifery

https://www.facebook.com/HeartlandMidwife

Toxemia would be my first guess also. Milk fever (hypocalcemia) would be second guess. If it's milk fever, her body temp will be low, so checking her temperature is important. Here is the info from Raising Goats Naturally on hypocalcemia:

The terms “milk fever” and “hypocalcemia” are frequently used interchangeably, although technically hypocalcemia is the cause of milk fever. When a doe becomes deficient in calcium during late pregnancy or early lactation, she will go off feed, show signs of mild bloat, become lethargic, and have difficulty standing or walking. If she has not yet kidded, she may have weak or ineffective uterine contractions. If she has already freshened, her production may suddenly decrease. Her body temperature will also go below normal, which makes the term “milk fever” rather confusing.

This is one of those areas where conflicting information abounds, claims that too much calcium in the diet causes it and claims that too little calcium causes it. Because most of our knowledge about lactating animals in North America is based on cows and too much calcium is the cause of milk fever in cows, it was also believed that too much calcium caused milk fever in goats. Recent research in goats, however, has shown that goats do not require the same low-calcium diet that cows do, and in fact, can develop hypocalcemia if they do not get enough calcium-rich feed such as alfalfa.

If you think a doe might be in the early stages of hypocalcemia, you can give her an oral calcium drench made specifically for goats. It is not a good idea to give human calcium supplements because they are not well absorbed. If she does not show improvement within a couple hours, contact your vet, who will probably treat her with an injectable form of calcium. It is easy to mistake other illnesses for milk fever; however, a doe with milk fever will respond within a couple of hours to calcium injections.

Goats with milk fever are especially susceptible to ketosis.

Replies

Deborah Niemann-Boehle December 5, 2013 at 7:05pm

Have you checked her temperature? That is always a good place to start. If it's high, she is probably battling some type of infection. If it's low, it's probably hypocalcemia.

I've used this calcium drench, which they also sell at my local Tractor Supply:

http://hoeggerfarmyard.com/xcart/Calcium-Drench-8-oz-bottle.html

It has propylene glycol in it, but that's also what they give for ketosis, so may be helpful if that's a problem too. Sometimes the two do occur together.

CMPK only has those four minerals plus dextrose. Which ingredient(s) are you concerned about?

Unfortunately you would have to get 10 cups of milk into a goat to equal as much calcium as is in one ounce of the calcium drench, so I don't know of any natural alternatives.
Sandra Hess December 5, 2013 at 12:07pm

Update: At midnight and again around 4am -she urinated no more than 4-6 tablspoons in amount ea. time and it was very concentrated. Ketones tested negative again. She eagerly ate some kelp (previously refused), received 40 ml. of yogurt/electrolytes/brown sugar water by drench and 50 ml. brown sugar water by drench . First thing this morning ...she delighted my heart when she greeted me already on her feet and with an eager check on what I brought her--- and immediately gobbled 10 soda crackers that she refused the first day and ate only 1 yesterday. She also readily went at the kelp again, as she did for the first time during the night. And- she butted the other doe this morning : ) Is there a more healthy alternative to CMPK? I tried to find that out and only found dead links.

Sandra Hess, CPM

Heartland Midwifery

https://www.facebook.com/HeartlandMidwife
Sandra Hess December 5, 2013 at 12:22am

Thank you, Deborah. I'm anxious for her recovery.

She has not had trouble walking, just seems with no interest to walk. She will stand for long spells...so I don't think she is uncomfortable standing and her legs do not shake. She is quite steady on her feet as usual.

I'd be able to purchase some CMPK tomorrow. I have read that the injectable CMPK is preferred and TSC may have it.

Since she is not drinking electrolyes, I placed it in yogurt with some brown sugar water to thin it slightly.

Sandra Hess, CPM

Heartland Midwifery

https://www.facebook.com/HeartlandMidwife
Deborah Niemann-Boehle December 4, 2013 at 11:31pm

Toxemia would be my first guess also. Milk fever (hypocalcemia) would be second guess. If it's milk fever, her body temp will be low, so checking her temperature is important. Here is the info from Raising Goats Naturally on hypocalcemia:

The terms “milk fever” and “hypocalcemia” are frequently used interchangeably, although technically hypocalcemia is the cause of milk fever. When a doe becomes deficient in calcium during late pregnancy or early lactation, she will go off feed, show signs of mild bloat, become lethargic, and have difficulty standing or walking. If she has not yet kidded, she may have weak or ineffective uterine contractions. If she has already freshened, her production may suddenly decrease. Her body temperature will also go below normal, which makes the term “milk fever” rather confusing.

This is one of those areas where conflicting information abounds, claims that too much calcium in the diet causes it and claims that too little calcium causes it. Because most of our knowledge about lactating animals in North America is based on cows and too much calcium is the cause of milk fever in cows, it was also believed that too much calcium caused milk fever in goats. Recent research in goats, however, has shown that goats do not require the same low-calcium diet that cows do, and in fact, can develop hypocalcemia if they do not get enough calcium-rich feed such as alfalfa.

If you think a doe might be in the early stages of hypocalcemia, you can give her an oral calcium drench made specifically for goats. It is not a good idea to give human calcium supplements because they are not well absorbed. If she does not show improvement within a couple hours, contact your vet, who will probably treat her with an injectable form of calcium. It is easy to mistake other illnesses for milk fever; however, a doe with milk fever will respond within a couple of hours to calcium injections.

Goats with milk fever are especially susceptible to ketosis.

This reply was deleted.