My doe delivered twin bucks tonight. One is doing well. He is pictured nursing.
The second didn't make it. I don't know if he was born alive, but neither me, my mom, my friend watching on camera, or apparently my doe even noticed he was born. My doe was facing me with her back toward the wall licking the first one. I just happened to see an odd shape behind her, but it was already too late to save him.
My question, though, is about his size. The first one was small but not incredibly so, but the second was TINY. I'm guessing the doe barely even felt him come out, which explains why she didn't notice (and why we didn't see her push). His teeth were also not all the way through his gums and he felt skinny. I wonder if he even would have made it if we'd seen him in time. He is pictured next to the baby suction bulb for size reference.
What would make him so small and seemingly not completely developed, when his sibling was normal? Her diet was free choice, good quality grass hay and mineral supplements until about the last month or so when I started giving her Chaffhaye as well. This diet has not caused any tiny babies in my other does. She was a 2nd freshener, and this was day 144.
I did learn something, though: never let a doe's back face away from you while in labor, or at least keep a really close eye behind her. They don't always noticeably push when delivering.
Hormones are amazing! I don't usually worry about whether or not does are friendly as kids. Once they kid, it's amazing how they come around -- as long as you take advantage of those hormones right away and start handling them daily.
I think it's got to be the hormones! I'm not exaggerating when I say that this doe was previously so hard to catch that it took two people and we had to trick her into a catch area while I stood on the hay stack to close the door behind her without her noticing. She and her mother were the first two does I bought and were both wild as March hares. They're still shy, but they've made improvements over the last few years and this huge step forward from Sandy is very encouraging. (The fact that the seller had them trapped in a small room and there were still sounds of a loud struggle as he caught them should have been a clue. I swear he must not have ever even touched Sandy as a kid except to dusbud her.) The fact that she went from that to the way she is now can only be attrtributed to an act of God, an act of hormones, or (most likely) a combination of the two! Haha.
That's great production from your Summer! I hope she makes it to 18 months for you. :)
Glenna Rose said:
I'm so happy to hear your doe is being so good. It is interesting that she was skittish and is doing so good milking. That is exactly how my Summer you see me brag about has been. She was very shy before she kidded and still is much of the time, but she is a dream on the milkstand, easy to milk and a good producer. We are at Day 380 and she is giving an average of 3/4-quart a day (milking once a day since mid-December). I did not start milking her until four months - next time she kids, I will be starting earlier; I'm thinking she might give two quarts a day. I can barely wait but am not going to breed her again until she drops to below a pint a day - her mom's sister milked for nearly two years before she had to be dried off. I would be delighted is she milks for 18 months, then I can breed her every other year and have fewer kids to have to part with. Again, congratulations!
I'm so happy to hear your doe is being so good. It is interesting that she was skittish and is doing so good milking. That is exactly how my Summer you see me brag about has been. She was very shy before she kidded and still is much of the time, but she is a dream on the milkstand, easy to milk and a good producer. We are at Day 380 and she is giving an average of 3/4-quart a day (milking once a day since mid-December). I did not start milking her until four months - next time she kids, I will be starting earlier; I'm thinking she might give two quarts a day. I can barely wait but am not going to breed her again until she drops to below a pint a day - her mom's sister milked for nearly two years before she had to be dried off. I would be delighted is she milks for 18 months, then I can breed her every other year and have fewer kids to have to part with. Again, congratulations!
Thank you both. I'm just glad the doe is doing well, and is a dream to milk. She's never been milked before or trained at all, and is acting like she's been milked her whole life. Its just shy of a miracle, really, considering she is my most skittish doe.
I'm just hoping tiny kids aren't a habit for her! I like small so they're easy to give birth to, but the one we lost was just too tiny. I wish I'd weighed him, because he was so thin I would be surprised if he was even 1.5 lbs!
They say some kids just don't have a good connection to the placenta. If you look at the umbilical cord, you might have noticed it was extremely thin in one spot. The doe was a little early. Four or five more days development at this stage could have meant a lot for that little guy. Sorry you lost him. When they are that small, the doe's uterus is often able to push them out with minimal pushing by the doe. He looks like he might have been 1.5 pounds, which is usually about the minimum for a kid surviving.
Replies
Hormones are amazing! I don't usually worry about whether or not does are friendly as kids. Once they kid, it's amazing how they come around -- as long as you take advantage of those hormones right away and start handling them daily.
I think it's got to be the hormones! I'm not exaggerating when I say that this doe was previously so hard to catch that it took two people and we had to trick her into a catch area while I stood on the hay stack to close the door behind her without her noticing. She and her mother were the first two does I bought and were both wild as March hares. They're still shy, but they've made improvements over the last few years and this huge step forward from Sandy is very encouraging. (The fact that the seller had them trapped in a small room and there were still sounds of a loud struggle as he caught them should have been a clue. I swear he must not have ever even touched Sandy as a kid except to dusbud her.) The fact that she went from that to the way she is now can only be attrtributed to an act of God, an act of hormones, or (most likely) a combination of the two! Haha.
That's great production from your Summer! I hope she makes it to 18 months for you. :)
Glenna Rose said:
I'm so happy to hear your doe is being so good. It is interesting that she was skittish and is doing so good milking. That is exactly how my Summer you see me brag about has been. She was very shy before she kidded and still is much of the time, but she is a dream on the milkstand, easy to milk and a good producer. We are at Day 380 and she is giving an average of 3/4-quart a day (milking once a day since mid-December). I did not start milking her until four months - next time she kids, I will be starting earlier; I'm thinking she might give two quarts a day. I can barely wait but am not going to breed her again until she drops to below a pint a day - her mom's sister milked for nearly two years before she had to be dried off. I would be delighted is she milks for 18 months, then I can breed her every other year and have fewer kids to have to part with.
Again, congratulations!
Thank you both. I'm just glad the doe is doing well, and is a dream to milk. She's never been milked before or trained at all, and is acting like she's been milked her whole life. Its just shy of a miracle, really, considering she is my most skittish doe.
I'm just hoping tiny kids aren't a habit for her! I like small so they're easy to give birth to, but the one we lost was just too tiny. I wish I'd weighed him, because he was so thin I would be surprised if he was even 1.5 lbs!
So sorry for your lost baby. Also wishing mom and firstborn all the very best.
They say some kids just don't have a good connection to the placenta. If you look at the umbilical cord, you might have noticed it was extremely thin in one spot. The doe was a little early. Four or five more days development at this stage could have meant a lot for that little guy. Sorry you lost him. When they are that small, the doe's uterus is often able to push them out with minimal pushing by the doe. He looks like he might have been 1.5 pounds, which is usually about the minimum for a kid surviving.