So I've been reading on this site for 2 years and have learned SO much. But again I made a mistake and learned the hard way. I have a 2nd freshener who started showing at 2 months and I was SURE she was having triplets or quads (she had triplets last year). So, fearing pregnancy toxemia (after reading way too many horror stories about it), I decided (against the advice of Deborah and others on here) to feed my doe grain in her last month. I started slow and increased the grain until she was getting about 1 and a 1/2 cups twice a day at the last. She was enormous. Well, she had TWINS 3 days ago and one was 4 lbs 10 oz and the other was 4 lbs 6 oz!!! The fist one came out with head and ONE leg and she was fairly stuck because of her size but I manage to get her out while mama screamed bloody murder. The buckling was easier as he was diving. They are both beautiful and healthy. Never again. I will NOT feed my does grain in pregnancy again except maybe in the last week and not much.
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It is a real balancing act with the alfalfa because they need the calcium the last couple weeks of pregnancy. You really don't want to deal with hypocalcemia, although it is usually only a problem with heavy milkers.
So do you think my alfalfa/hay mix (alfalfa, timothy, orchard-- 15% protein) is okay for my pregnant girls? This is the only true "quality" feed we have. Our hay is very mediocre and they hardly touch it. But, my girls so far are having very large kids and I have 2 more to go in 2 months. If it's the fault of the alfalfa hay mix, I'll cut that out until everyone is in milk. But then how will they get their calcium they need in late pregnancy? Could anything else be causing my kids to be large? They don't get grain until they freshen.
Deborah Niemann-Boehle said:
I use Sweetlix, but you can use other brands. Just be sure it has at least 1500 ppm copper in it. I also use a free choice selenium-E from Caprine Supply, as well as kelp and baking soda. So I have two of those mineral feeders for a total of four dishes. If you are feeding grain, you really need to have baking soda there in case they get an upset rumen.
The mineral feeder needs to be put up with screws. If you use nails, they'll knock it down. You also need to put it above their tails so they can't poop in it. You can put a cement block next to it for them to put their front feet on to eat the minerals.
The protein in the alfalfa isn't as bad as the carbs in the grain. A grass-alfalfa mix usually works for most of pregnancy and then alfalfa at the very end when the need for calcium goes up right before kidding and milking.
I put up that very mineral feeder for the kelp/mineral soil. The goats got it off the wall somehow. It's back up now for another try, though they do get some poop in it. I'll have to have a handyman help me put up more, in a way that the goats can't poop in them or climb into them. as walls two concrete blocks high runs around all our pens and the goats scamper on them.
I have also tried to use a free-standing mineral feeder, but the goats roust about and knock it over.
Are the minerals you put out the ones Pat Colby recommends, or what?
So no problem with alfalfa hay, regarding the protein?
The doe that was too hefty gets literally just a sprinkle of corn. When I quit giving her the ration that has a lot of corn in it, I gave her just a bit of corn to gradually change what she was used to, and have not gotten to cutting her off altogether , as she is not overweight any more.
Shivani -- Goat minerals should be provided free choice in a dish (like the one pictured at the right side of this page) all the time, so there is no need to give them grain for the minerals.
I have not heard either of the opinions on grain and oats before.
Unless your hay is very poor quality or there are some health issues, there is no reason to be feeding grain at all and certainly not the amount you're feeding. That's more like what I feed milkers. Goats in the middle of pregnancy don't need grain, and at most you might start giving them grain at the end of pregnancy, but only about 1/2 cup a day. I would definitely NOT be giving corn to a goat that was already overweight at breeding. Corn is just fat and carbs (corn syrup, corn starch, corn oil, etc).
Goats need a high quality green hay, whether it's alfalfa, peanut, or oats, or a good grass hay. Milkers generally need a legume hay such as alfalfa or peanut.
Info. regarding what I have started adding to the kelp for the goats is found at: http://www.earthwiseagriculture.net/restora-life-mrx.html
The story of how the base of this was discovered is interesting. Back when swine flu was wiping out 100% of the pigs in one area, one farmer had one pen of pigs every one of which survived. Finally, it dawned on him that those particular pigs often got loose and he always found them in the same spot, eating the soil. Upon testing, the soil was found to be extremely high in minerals, a local uprising of a vein of soil containing nutrients from plants of long ago. Now they mine it, and add a few things to it.
Yes, they are all Nigerians.
One always left the fine minerals from the mixed ration, so I quit giving it to her. She just gets oats, with only a sprinkle of corn because she is the one who was a bit heavy at breeding time.
The thin one has been getting more ration because she is thin and the one who has had two sets of triplets has been getting more ration because I thought she might need it, after reading that goats stuffed with kids (She appears about to burst, with at least 3 weeks to go. I did pen breeding this year and could not tell for sure when each doe got bred, but she can’t be due any sooner, as I put the buck in with her on Thanksgiving Day.) have less room for hay and should get more grain. (That from a university guy, who of course thinks that grain is great for goats.)
An old ruminant expert (NOT a university guy), tells me that oats will not cause overweight, that in fact an increase in oats can cause a goat to lose weight, so I have not been concerned about the oats. Perhaps you have info. contrary to this?
We are so low on hay that tomorrow we are going to a farm we have not gotten hay from before, for more. The farmer has goats and says they love and do great on his organic hay, which is mostly alfalfa, cut before it flowered. We also have the option to get mostly-alfalfa hay from another farm that would also be new to us.
What do you see as the ideal hay for dairy goats?
Thanks!
Shivani -- welcome to the group! Wow! You're feeding a lot of grain. Do you have Nigerians or a larger breed? Why do you feed such different grain for different goats? Any particular issues you're trying to solve?
Some alfalfas are really high in protein. If you're not testing the hay, you don't know what it is, but I've heard that some can be in the upper teens and that you can even get oat hay in the mid-teens. The good thing about alfalfa is the calcium content, which is important to prevent hypocalcemia, but does mostly need that towards the very end of pregnancy and in early lactation.
Many of my does who have multiples -- even quintuplets -- do not have a runt. We don't have very many runts here. This year we've only had one out of 35 kids so far. Since the other kids are always a good size, I don't think it has anything to do with the doe's nutrition. The vet professors say it has to do with placenta transfer of nutrients -- sometimes it's just not getting to one of the kids for some reason. Also, keep in mind that the sire's dam has an impact on litter size. I can trace all of my high multiple does back to Buttin'Heads Too Polar Bear +S. His dam had lots of quads and a set of six one year. As with everything else, genetics set the stage, but nutrition is what determines whether or not a goat will perform up to their potential. Prior to discovering out copper deficiency problem, we had lots of singles and twins, a few triplets, and one doe who would have quads. So far this year, our average kids per doe it 3.5 -- no singles, a few twins, mostly triplets and quads, and two sets of quints.
After reading today all the stories posted here lately, I'm wondering if I should change what I'm feeding my does. Two of them are due 3 weeks from now, one is due in a month and one FF is due (if she is indeed pregnant) in two months.
They all get all the hay they want. We have to buy hay and have had to get it here and there this winter, of varying quality. Basically alfalfa, though, with some weeds and grass.
The doe who has had triplets both times before gets about a cup of oats with a half cup of organic goat ration in it twice a day. The doe that has had twins or single in the past started her pregnancy a bit overweight. She gets about 3/4 cup of oats with a sprinkle of corn in it, twice a day. The third doe is thin. She had twins before I got her, had a big buck singleton last year. (Apparently easily. He was already up and about when I went to check on her one more time before going to bed.) She gets 3/4 cup oats and 1/2 cup goat ration, twice a day. The FF is just getting hay. They all also get kelp with a special mineral earth, which I have just discovered, mixed with it. (Restora Life MRX - Earthwise Organics)
The goat ration is organic. I don’t like it, because it has a lot of corn in it, but have been feeding it because it also has all the minerals goats need and I am not confidant about how to provide those otherwise. The last bag I got of it is almost gone now, and I’d like to move on to something better.
This will be our second year of kidding. All went well last year, but to tell the truth I can’t remember just what I was feeding at this point last year and need to start keeping a record.
Thanks for any helpful advice!
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