HI From Washington!

[Laura Amann]

HI-
I don't have any goats at the moment, but I am most interested in ND's because of size and cost of feeding.  I live on 5 acres of grass, pine and oak.  I have a 5 and 3 year old boys who are also excited about the goats.  I think I have just successfully talked my husband into getting 2 does.  I love the idea of using a movable pen during the day and a sort of locked or at least closed and protected shelter at night.  We have coyotes and cougars in the area and I think these guys might be easy pickings.  Right now we have a 41/2' X 4' X 4' built in dog or goat house right next to the house (kind of attached like) with a 25'x25' 6 foot high cyclone fence on 2 sides and the house on the other 2 sides.  The "house" has a dirt floor.  Can anyone tell me if that would be too close to the house for the goats.  I don't want it to stink, but I would plan on keeping them in the movable pen on most days.  I am wanting the goats for milk and plan on starting with 2 does.  My main worry about that is how to get them bred when the time comes.  I don't know anyone around here with ND's.  I would love to know more about that for those of you who also don't have ND's near you.  A lot of folks seem to have ND's in Portland, which is 2 hours away form me.  Is it even possible to travel with a doe in heat or do you just plan ahead?  It sounds like does have 28 day cycles.  I need to keep whatever herd I have very small, except for when the kids come and I need to sell them when I can wean them.  Then that of course lead to the should you have registered animals or not, which I saw a thread on and need to read.  I want to be able to get rid of kids easily and do not care about making money on them (breaking even would be fine).  Anyways, that is me...I better get started reading.  Thanks for all your help in advance.

Laura

[Adrienne]

Hi Laura. we have 1.5 acres...I was not going to get a buck either in the beginning, but I changed my mind later because I figured it would be easier and cheaper in the long run for us. I feel a lot better having made that choice because I know I can breed them when they are ready. We have two bucks at the moment. I found them first. But since they are only NDGA registered I am planning on weathering them soon. They will be companions for the buck I am getting early next year. My mentor has my does at her place right now( I only just bought them) for breeding. When they get here we have a pen in the front west side of the yard for the does, and a pen behind the detached garage for the bucks. I sectioned off part of the garage so that they have a built in shelter. We never park the car in there anyway, and its a bunch of wasted space since only one corner has anything stored.

Deborah Niemann-Boehle said:

The goaty flavor is not the same as rancid, which is a bad thing. Goaty flavor is "normal," and I'm told that people in France love that goaty flavor. Having never had goat milk until I was almost 40, goaty flavor makes me gag. Keeping does with bucks -- or even where bucks can rub on them through the fence -- definitely creates a goaty flavor in the milk. In fact, a couple weeks ago, I bred two does and forgot to tell my daughter, so she added their milk to the regular bucket, and it was stinky when she brought it into the house, so it went to the pigs.

A vet who raises goats told me that the goaty flavor comes from a completely harmless bacteria that is on goat's skin, so the cleaner you are with milking, the less likely you are to get that flavor. As long as we clean the udder before milking and then put the first two or three squirts into a separate container, we don't have any trouble with goatiness. If there is any goatiness in the milk, it will intensify with time. However, milk around here doesn't last more than a day or two, because we are always making cheese, yogurt, buttermilk, etc. I've never heard anything about a special milking technique, unless she is just talking about being clean. We haven't changed our hand-milking in eight years, and we've also added machine milking, and we've found no difference. Initially we didn't clean udder or do first squirts, and we had goaty milk quite often. Some people also say that cooling milk quickly eliminates goaty flavor, but I have never found that to be true. If you sniff it when it comes inside, and it has any hint of goatiness to it, it will just get worse with time, regardless of what you do.

As for AI -- I've heard of people renting space in someone else's semen tank, which is the most expensive part of the equipment. Superior Semen Works is a goat semen collection company. They have workshops sometimes. I've seen AI equipment in goat catalogs like Caprine Supply and Hoegger.

Laura Amann said:

HI Greg and Deborah- I am from Wisconsin originally and welcome to your new hobby. I am not sure if I am going to wait to get goats until the spring too. I could definately use the time to do more research. I want to check out mini nubians too. I know there is a breeder within 5 hours that I could drop off a doe at for $50. But then I guess I need to think that if I am willing to do that, I should check out a few more breeders in WA and OR that are farther away. I just hate to drive a doe that far. I am sure that is ungrounding to them. One think I would also like to do, is for myself and my 2 kids to be able to try the milk first. My oldest is pretty picky. There is a raw goat dairy 10 miles from here and we got a gallon last week. It tasted pretty good the first day (it was from previous nights milking) and then seemed to get goatier as the days go by. I am thinking fresh out of the goat and he would drink it. I have a friend who told me there is a certain technique for milking that is gentler and doesn't disturb the fat gobules and activate the enzyme that makes it go rancid so quickly. Any thoughts on that? I would love to believe it is true, but you know. I am a stay at home mom to homeschoolers, so I will be around to see if goats are in heat, but the whole AI think is rather intimidating. I have read that a whether can help you detect when your doe is in heat, so that is something to consider. Can anyone direct me to info on AI on the very small scale and equipment. I wonder if anyone rents or would consider group buying the stuff. That would be cool. I want to keep my herd small as I am on 5 acres and am not so sure if the neighbors care or not. But we have strong winds here and I live upwind of everyone and am the most secuded in the neighborhood (200+ ranch acres to the South, empty lot to the north and snow bird folks on the 8 acres behind me.) We used to have homeowner association but we think it is defunct now after 3 years of no meetings and not collecting dues.
Thanks for the info Deborah

[Deborah Niemann-Boehle]

The goaty flavor is not the same as rancid, which is a bad thing. Goaty flavor is "normal," and I'm told that people in France love that goaty flavor. Having never had goat milk until I was almost 40, goaty flavor makes me gag. Keeping does with bucks -- or even where bucks can rub on them through the fence -- definitely creates a goaty flavor in the milk. In fact, a couple weeks ago, I bred two does and forgot to tell my daughter, so she added their milk to the regular bucket, and it was stinky when she brought it into the house, so it went to the pigs.

A vet who raises goats told me that the goaty flavor comes from a completely harmless bacteria that is on goat's skin, so the cleaner you are with milking, the less likely you are to get that flavor. As long as we clean the udder before milking and then put the first two or three squirts into a separate container, we don't have any trouble with goatiness. If there is any goatiness in the milk, it will intensify with time. However, milk around here doesn't last more than a day or two, because we are always making cheese, yogurt, buttermilk, etc. I've never heard anything about a special milking technique, unless she is just talking about being clean. We haven't changed our hand-milking in eight years, and we've also added machine milking, and we've found no difference. Initially we didn't clean udder or do first squirts, and we had goaty milk quite often. Some people also say that cooling milk quickly eliminates goaty flavor, but I have never found that to be true. If you sniff it when it comes inside, and it has any hint of goatiness to it, it will just get worse with time, regardless of what you do.

As for AI -- I've heard of people renting space in someone else's semen tank, which is the most expensive part of the equipment. Superior Semen Works is a goat semen collection company. They have workshops sometimes. I've seen AI equipment in goat catalogs like Caprine Supply and Hoegger.

Laura Amann said:

HI Greg and Deborah- I am from Wisconsin originally and welcome to your new hobby. I am not sure if I am going to wait to get goats until the spring too. I could definately use the time to do more research. I want to check out mini nubians too. I know there is a breeder within 5 hours that I could drop off a doe at for $50. But then I guess I need to think that if I am willing to do that, I should check out a few more breeders in WA and OR that are farther away. I just hate to drive a doe that far. I am sure that is ungrounding to them. One think I would also like to do, is for myself and my 2 kids to be able to try the milk first. My oldest is pretty picky. There is a raw goat dairy 10 miles from here and we got a gallon last week. It tasted pretty good the first day (it was from previous nights milking) and then seemed to get goatier as the days go by. I am thinking fresh out of the goat and he would drink it. I have a friend who told me there is a certain technique for milking that is gentler and doesn't disturb the fat gobules and activate the enzyme that makes it go rancid so quickly. Any thoughts on that? I would love to believe it is true, but you know.I am a stay at home mom to homeschoolers, so I will be around to see if goats are in heat, but the whole AI think is rather intimidating. I have read that a whether can help you detect when your doe is in heat, so that is something to consider. Can anyone direct me to info on AI on the very small scale and equipment. I wonder if anyone rents or would consider group buying the stuff. That would be cool. I want to keep my herd small as I am on 5 acres and am not so sure if the neighbors care or not. But we have strong winds here and I live upwind of everyone and am the most secuded in the neighborhood (200+ ranch acres to the South, empty lot to the north and snow bird folks on the 8 acres behind me.) We used to have homeowner association but we think it is defunct now after 3 years of no meetings and not collecting dues.
Thanks for the info Deborah

[Laura Amann]

HI Greg and Deborah- I am from Wisconsin originally and welcome to your new hobby. I am not sure if I am going to wait to get goats until the spring too. I could definately use the time to do more research. I want to check out mini nubians too. I know there is a breeder within 5 hours that I could drop off a doe at for $50. But then I guess I need to think that if I am willing to do that, I should check out a few more breeders in WA and OR that are farther away. I just hate to drive a doe that far. I am sure that is ungrounding to them. One think I would also like to do, is for myself and my 2 kids to be able to try the milk first. My oldest is pretty picky. There is a raw goat dairy 10 miles from here and we got a gallon last week. It tasted pretty good the first day (it was from previous nights milking) and then seemed to get goatier as the days go by. I am thinking fresh out of the goat and he would drink it. I have a friend who told me there is a certain technique for milking that is gentler and doesn't disturb the fat gobules and activate the enzyme that makes it go rancid so quickly. Any thoughts on that? I would love to believe it is true, but you know.

I am a stay at home mom to homeschoolers, so I will be around to see if goats are in heat, but the whole AI think is rather intimidating. I have read that a whether can help you detect when your doe is in heat, so that is something to consider. Can anyone direct me to info on AI on the very small scale and equipment. I wonder if anyone rents or would consider group buying the stuff. That would be cool. I want to keep my herd small as I am on 5 acres and am not so sure if the neighbors care or not. But we have strong winds here and I live upwind of everyone and am the most secuded in the neighborhood (200+ ranch acres to the South, empty lot to the north and snow bird folks on the 8 acres behind me.) We used to have homeowner association but we think it is defunct now after 3 years of no meetings and not collecting dues.
Thanks for the info Deborah

Greg Nimchuk said:

Hi from Minnesota! Like Laura, I'm a new to the group. Laura and I both have similar situations and concerns, except I am not planning on getting goats until next spring. Until then, I find I spend a lot of my free time reading about goats, making plans for housing and yard, making lists of everything I will need and when I will need it. Again, like Laura, I am going to be getting two does, but I am having trouble deciding to get two kids and having to wait another year still to get any goat milk or to get two older does and jump right in to the twice a day milking. I also have the same concerns that Laura does about breeding (thanks Laura for being so eloquent with my thoughts :-), a lot of the breeders around here don't provide stud service, understandably. This weekend, I'm going to the Minnesota State Fair for the dairy goat judging and hope to develop some contacts.
I suspect that raising goats for me is another senior moment. Two years ago, never having made a loaf of bread in my life (nor laid a brick), I build a brick bread oven and now bake twenty loaves every couple weeks. It will probably be the same way with goats, I think I'm going to like it a lot. Glad to be a member of this group, from what I've read so far, you have a lot of great answers to great questions and you seem to be friendly.

Thanks,
Greg

[Greg Nimchuk]

Hi from Minnesota! Like Laura, I'm a new to the group. Laura and I both have similar situations and concerns, except I am not planning on getting goats until next spring. Until then, I find I spend a lot of my free time reading about goats, making plans for housing and yard, making lists of everything I will need and when I will need it. Again, like Laura, I am going to be getting two does, but I am having trouble deciding to get two kids and having to wait another year still to get any goat milk or to get two older does and jump right in to the twice a day milking. I also have the same concerns that Laura does about breeding (thanks Laura for being so eloquent with my thoughts :-), a lot of the breeders around here don't provide stud service, understandably. This weekend, I'm going to the Minnesota State Fair for the dairy goat judging and hope to develop some contacts.
I suspect that raising goats for me is another senior moment. Two years ago, never having made a loaf of bread in my life (nor laid a brick), I build a brick bread oven and now bake twenty loaves every couple weeks. It will probably be the same way with goats, I think I'm going to like it a lot. Glad to be a member of this group, from what I've read so far, you have a lot of great answers to great questions and you seem to be friendly.

Thanks,
Greg

[Deborah Niemann-Boehle]

I think your housing situation would be fine for does. They don't really stink, but bucks do. You would need to put straw in the little house for sanitation, as well as warmth in the winter. A bale of straw would last you four weeks though if you did it weekly. I use a bale of straw for stalls and pens that are 10 X 10 or 15, and I use half a bale for my kidding pens, which are 10 X 4 or 5. So, you'd need only 12 bales of straw all year. Not bad!

I hope you can find someone for buck service. You could also look into AI, if you wanted to do that. They cycle about every 21 days (18 to 23 is the range). If you're not in a position where you can keep an eye on them and drop everything when one is in heat, you might be able to find someone for a month-long boarding/breeding.

[Laura Amann]

Thanks, I saw your post on the movable pen and I love the idea. Our grass in the back yard grows 4-5 ft high and i don't know if they will eat it, but I would like them to have the opportunity. This is a big dry land hay growing area, so I imagine it is quite nutritious for them. There are hay fields up wind from us. Anyways, thanks for the welcome. Glad to have found this place.

Laura

WorkingGoats4 said:

Welcome Laura! Sounds like some good plans. I am not sure on the goats near the house thing as far as smell. I use shavings for bedding and clean the stall out once a week, so I don't smell much. But it's hard to tell if the smell is from the goats or the sheep and horses who also live in the barn!

If you have any questions on a movable pen, that is what I do, so let me know!

Again, welcome!
WG4

[Elyse Nicholson]

Welcome Laura! Sounds like some good plans. I am not sure on the goats near the house thing as far as smell. I use shavings for bedding and clean the stall out once a week, so I don't smell much. But it's hard to tell if the smell is from the goats or the sheep and horses who also live in the barn!

If you have any questions on a movable pen, that is what I do, so let me know!

Again, welcome!
WG4