Has anyone ever used frontline on their goats and if so, what dose and how did it go for you?
I am asking because I DID--I used it for lice, I used a large dog (89 lb) size. One doe has had no side effects. .the other doe is losing her hair. :(
Called and talked to Merial (the manufacturer of Frontline) and all has been done as it should have, my doe is just having a weird reaction to the frontline. figures.
I have also been reading about copper, in case this may be an issue as well. I have been giving them both wheat germ oil, BOSS, and a little kelp.
Free choice mineral/b.soda is available at all times as well. They get 1/4 cup of goat chow 1x daily--I was figuring it was a good way for them to get their vit's and minerals also. I know they don't 'need' it. They get grass hay (a cruddy cutting right now) once or twice a day as well as when I am home they are staked out for browse.
anyway, feed back is appreciated! :)
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It is sad and frustrating that most vets in this country know so little about goats, but it's because goats have not been popular in this country until recently. Less than 20 years ago, vets still thought that goats were just sheep without wool and assumed they needed no copper. Many still put all their trust in the feed and chemical companies, and if it were not for an experienced breeder who told me my goats were copper deficient, I'd probably be out of goats by now because of the problems I was having -- bucks not living past the age of 3 and does aborting at all stages of pregnancy or not getting pregnant at all. It was heartbreaking. And four vets told me that copper deficiency was impossible if I was feeding a "complete" feed and free choice minerals. Goat feeds vary from 10 ppm to 80 ppm in the US, so how can they be considered equally "complete?" They're not.
I have found a few people who actually do goat research at the vet and ag schools, and most of them have PhDs (not DVMs), but they actually have hands-on experience with goats, which vets do not. They tend to have very good info, but other than that, you're right that experienced breeders are your best bet for good info.
While virtually everything is used off-label with goats, most of what we use is at least approved for use in cattle or sheep. There is a big difference between ruminants and single-stomach animals, and switching up meds between them often causes problems. People used to use cattle ivermectin on their dogs as a heartworm preventative, and it wound up killing quite a few dogs, so unless I thought an animal was going to die and I had nothing to lose, I'd at least stick with drugs that approved for use in other ruminants. There are a lot of drugs that do work in goats on lice, which have been used by many people with no problems. Ivermectin or Eprinex pour-on for cattle are two pretty common ones. But goat skin is very thin, and their metabolism is faster than cows or sheep, so most people double sheep or cattle dewormer dosages for goats. Most people don't use injectable dewormers in goats because it's very painful for the goat and very scary for the humans. They seriously sound and act like they're dieing. And a lot of vets and researchers specifically do not recommend the injectable forms of those drugs in goats.
As for the active ingredient in Frontline not affecting mammals in any way, that is actually impossible to prove. I'm sure the people from Merial say that, just as the people from Monsanto say that GMOs do not have any negative problems. However, one of the few useful things I learned as I suffered through my research and statistics class in grad school was that it is scientifically impossible to prove a negative theory. You can only prove a positive theory, such as A causes B. But you cannot prove that A does not cause B because there are an infinite number of variables. That's why after 50 years of using plastic with BPA in it, it is now being banned because they realized it causes cancer -- even though the plastic industry is still insisting that it does not cause cancer. The FDA has long believed that the dose creates the poison, but the problem is that the dose in some things can be so small that it can't even be detected by modern equipment, so no one has any idea that it is a poison.
Ok.. thanks guys :)
Wrenny is doing fine, just chilly. We are going to put her in a sweatshirt to wear for a while.
I talked at length with our Merial guy on Friday.. (I am a vet tech, and have been for almost 20 years).. I know it's a reaction to the frontline, just is a weird reaction. Some animals are allergic to the CARRIER in the frontline, not the active ingredient itself. I personally feel that frontline is the least toxic way to treat for any external parasites on most any mammel. I can't tell you how many seizing cats we have treated over the years because an owner applied too much of a pyrethrins based flea medication on them. The active ingredient in frontline DOES NOT affect mammals in any way. The Merial rep did say that ivomectin INJECTED can cause all over hair loss, and I thought that was interesting. He also said never ever apply frontline to rabbits or guinea pigs~also interesting. we talked in detail about HOW frontline works--which I can explain if anyone is interested--and why it might affect the rabbits adversely....
I would have also ignored the lice issue, and waited for more sunny weather. But here in the very wet exceptionally cloudy PNW, we are having an awful Spring, and no extended good weather is on the way. :( I didn't want the lice to get out of hand.
from what I am learning, there isn't a lot of knowledge about goats (or chickens) out there, unless it's coming from people with hands on experience--like you guys here. Most of the medications for goats and chickens, it seems, are always off label and are being used on the learning curve. That was my reason for asking if anyone here had any experience with the Frontline.. :)
one of my fave quotes: 'All substances are poisons. There is none which is not a poison. The right dose differentiates a poison and a remedy.' (paracelsus 1492-1541) :)
Thanks again~~and I hope everyone has a fab day!! :)
I have never heard of using frontline in goats and I know it isn't approved in them. I rarely treat lice unless they get really bad. Normally waiting until the sun is shining and then clipping them when it is warm enough is adequate to get rid of them. I also try to avoid the chemicals, so if I have to treat for lice, I use something with pyrethrins, which are from marigolds.
A number of people have had problems with hair loss from using ivermection, so this may be similar. I would steer clear of dog drugs for goats.
We used Frontline on our dog one time and she had a bad reaction and we almost lost her. We had to take her to the vet and she had to be put on medication. They said the only thing that saved her was the fact she weighs 130 lbs. She started losing chunks of hair, had boils all over her body and she started sleeping a lot!! They said for dogs, sometimes they can slip into a coma and never wake up!! Good luck I hope it's only hair loss... We were really lucky..
I haven't used Frontline on a goat and don't know anyone who has. If they have lice in the summer, you can just clip their hair with a #10 blade (Oster), and the lice are gone. If you used Frontline, and she's losing her hair, it's probably a reaction to the drug. They usually lose their hair on their face and tail tip if they're copper deficient.