I have four kids and the most healthy was found dead one morning last week. The day before he died at noon he was fine. He ate 7 ounces (of which I feed 4 times a day) and he was jumping around etc. At 4 he seemed a little shy or something but still drank 3 - 4 ounces. At 9 he stayed in the little house I made them in their pin and wouldn't come out to drink anything. This morning he was dead. He wasn't frozen and there was no trace of poop but he had a little blood coming from where he was polled. When I buried him this afternoon the cap from where he was polled came off. Do you think that suggests that perhaps he had a concussion or something and that is why he was addled and eventually died? He was the most rambunctious of the bunch and often jumped nearly out of the pin falling back a couple times rather hard. I kept the 4 of them together and one of the does is a little bigger. She kinda picks on the others but they normally turn the other way and they don't really fight but it also dropped to near 0 last night, too. I am scared of worms and I have been feeding them herbal dewormer and the sudden-ness of his decline seems to not suggest worms, right? He did have diarrhea 8 days ago and I fixed it with pepto bismal and a couple doses of anti-biotic but I had seen where he had pooped since. My dad fed them one day, too and he said he did see one of my chickens in their pin and kinda coming at them. What do you think happened? Do I need to be worried about the others? Should I put them somewhere else when it is that cold? I have read places on here that say the temperature is not a problem but even if they seem week? If they seem week should I bring them in?
Thanks,
Jamey
Replies
I'd drop the molasses and decrease the amount of milk you're giving them. Recommendations I've seen are 18 to 24 ounces a day. You're only slightly over that, but it might make a difference. I know they always seem like they're starving, which is why I always do 24 ounces, but there was a very prominent breeder who had top-notch goats and swore by 18 ounces a day.
I know there are people who swear they know someone who had a buckling get a goat pregnant at two months, but I don't see it. I've gradually left bucks with their dams longer and longer and have made it up to three months with no problems. The only reason I don't like putting bucklings with older bucks is the risk of coccidia. At least in my case, when I've put young bucks with the older boys, that has been a problem. They really get along fine because the little guys don't even try to stand up to the adults. What I do now if I have a single buckling is to put him in a pen sharing a fence with other goats, so he's not totally alone.
And I wouldn't worry about the kids drinking their milk too fast. They all suck it down FAST! I've never heard of the situation you mentioned and would certainly not give a goat an enema.
Good luck with everything! You'll get it all figured out!
James Samuel Sturgill said:
Thanks for the hugs. It was quite traumatic for me. I cried, a lot. He was my first to die. There was an older doeling, 9 months old, that jumped into their pin quite often and she was in there that day, too, but I think Deborah was right, it didn't seem to be a sudden death only a sudden decline.
Thank you for clarifying my term polled with disbudded. After I thought about it, I think the chickens probably pecked him after he was dead, too. I didn't have time to bury him immediately and put him in a feed sack outside the barn. I bet that is why his head was bleeding, they were standing near him when I returned in the afternoon, too.
I am sorry for your loss, too. It must be even harder after you have had them for a while.
Thanks, again.
I asked Deborah if she had a suggestion but perhaps you have a suggestion, too. I have 2 doelings, one buckling, one 7 month old buck, one wether, and six does. I originally bought the buckling that died as a companion to the buckling that I still have and on the 19th my buckling will be 8 weeks thus I need to separate him from the two doelings. Now I have no companion for him. What should I do? Should I put him in a pin with the buck and wether? Is it a big enough deal that I should go buy another buckling? Should I keep him with the doelings but somehow talk him out of sex until he is of age? :-) What would you do?
PlayRite Farm said:
I am feeding them whole milk from the store with a little molasses.
You know, his diarrhea did stink pretty awful. I read one thing that said when they eat too fast it can fill the wrong stomach and then ferment and you have to give them an enema and not Pepto Bismal. It could have been that, too. When I fed him Pepto it could have simply made it worse. Perhaps, I am a little paranoid now but the other three's eyes looked a little dim today, too. I have been putting the herbal dewormer from Hoegger on their feed but perhaps that isn't enough. I followed the instructions from Fiasco farm and gave them all three 10 ml of herbal dewormer mixed with water, today. Their eyes seemed to look brighter later in the evening, too. All of them eat fine, too, though. Today, I ordered Molly's Herbal Dewormer, too, both formulas. That should help, too.
Thank you so much for answering my question. If you don't mind, I have another question, too. I have 2 doelings, one buckling, one 7 month old buck, one wether, and six does. I originally bought the buckling that died as a companion to the buckling that I still have and on the 19th my buckling will be 8 weeks thus I need to separate him from the two doelings. Now I have no companion for him. What should I do? Should I put him in a pin with the buck and wether? Is it a big enough deal that I should go buy another buckling? Should I keep him with the doelings but somehow talk him out of sex until he is of age? :-) What would you do?
Thanks again.
Jamey
Deborah Niemann-Boehle said:
Without a necropsy, it's impossible to know for sure. It could have been worms. What you describe is not really a "sudden" death. Diarrhea is generally a sign of one or two things with kids -- either they've eaten too much or they have coccidia. That's why I have never given kids anything to stop diarrhea. If they ate too much, it will stop on its own, provided they don't continually overeat. If they have coccidia, they need to be treated for that, or they will die. I don't raise kids on milk replacer and don't sell to anyone who is going to feed them milk replacer, because I've heard a number of people say that they've had kids get diarrhea and die when raised on it. Most kids do okay on it, but it's not ideal. You didn't mention what you were feeding, but I thought I'd mention that in case you are feeding it. Kids have an immature immune system and they need the antibodies in goat milk for optimum development. You do what you have to do in case of an emergency, but I would never feed milk replacer if I had another option. They do sell a medicated milk replacer. I'm not necessarily recommending it, but if another one gets diarrhea, it's something to consider.
When I say that goats can handle the cold, I hope I always stress that I'm talking about healthy goats. Sick goats can have a hard time regulating their body temperature and can become hypothermic. Once they're that far gone, it's tough to bring one back, although I have done it. It was a stinky buck with pneumonia, and I brought him in my house and put a heat lamp on him. His temp was so low, it wouldn't even register on the thermometer. My whole basement stunk, but he made it!
Whenever a goat goes off feed, that is a big sign that something is wrong. The scenario you described at 9 p.m. was the time to take action and figure out what was wrong. I'm not saying that anything could have been done, but finding him dead the next day is not that big of a surprise, because a healthy bottle baby NEVER refuses a bottle.
If these babies are the only goats you have and they are on clean pasture, it's unlikely that they have an overload of worms, unless they already had them when you got them. You can take a fecal sample to your vet if you think one of the others seems bony or thin. The inside of their eyelids should be bright red. If they're light pink or white, they're anemic, which is usually caused by internal parasites but could also be lice.
Don't beat yourself up about it. We always think about what we should have done after losing an animal, but as they say, hindsight is 20/20. Good luck with the others, and don't hesitate to ask questions on here.