FF Quads

Our FF doe had quads 5 days ago--only our second batch of kids ever, so quite exciting!  She's a little doe and the sire is half la Mancha, so I was worried ahead of time about the birth, but all went really well.  The littlest one was breech but came out just fine.  

2 does and 2 bucks, and it's very interesting--there are 2 black and white kids (one doe, one buck) with long Nigerian ears like their mom, and 2 white kids with short la Mancha ears like their dad.  It's almost like they are two sets of twins.  And often the black pair sleep together and the white ones sleep together!  Funny.

As mentioned, one of the does is pretty little.  We weighed them all when they were about 24 hours old, and they ranged from 4 lb 5 oz to 2 lb 9 oz.  They are all nursing and all alert and energetic, but I'm not sure the little one is getting enough--her tummy doesn't seem as full as the others.  So I think I will start supplementing as suggested in other posts.  I have a neighbor we get cow's milk from for our own use; I thought I'd use that.  Should I add any powdered colostrum to it?  

It's interesting, the doe sometimes doesn't want any of the kids to nurse and moves away until they give up--I don't remember our other doe doing this.  But other times she's very patient and attentive.  And sometimes she will let the 2 smallest ones nurse but not the big ones!  Have others seen this behavior?  It's almost as if she knows the little ones need it.

I'm giving her at least 2 cups of grain a day right now, to make sure she has enough, plus vegetables and alfalfa pellets and hay.  

If anyone has any suggestions for anything more or different I should do I'd appreciate it.  Thanks!

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  • Okay, thanks, I'll keep at it.

    Yes, it was definitely accidental (our 5-month-old buck got to her before we had him wethered, although we thought we separated him in time).  I was hoping for twins or triplets at least!

    And he was from an accidental breeding, although not by us.  When we bought his mom she was supposed to be pregnant by a ND buck, but it turns out their La Mancha buck got through the fence to her afterwards.  We were very lucky with her too--she had triplets and all was well, but it could have been bad.  Not sure her owners didn't know--I don't know why I keep expecting other people to be honest...


    Deborah Niemann-Boehle said:

    That's completely normal. A bottle is not natural for them, so you have to teach them. You basically have to pry open their mouth, stick the nipple in there and hold their mouth shut until they learn. In the beginning you might just be waiting for the milk to drip down their throats, but hopefully they will start sucking sooner rather than later. 

    By the way, it kind of sounded like this might have been an accidental breeding. But just in case you are tempted to do it again, I'd recommend against it. You actually got quite lucky that she had quads, which kept the kid size small. If you ever cross breeds, the doe should be from the larger breeder. We have a member on here who had a first freshener wind up with a c-section because she had a single kid that weighed 7 pounds!

  • That's completely normal. A bottle is not natural for them, so you have to teach them. You basically have to pry open their mouth, stick the nipple in there and hold their mouth shut until they learn. In the beginning you might just be waiting for the milk to drip down their throats, but hopefully they will start sucking sooner rather than later. 

    By the way, it kind of sounded like this might have been an accidental breeding. But just in case you are tempted to do it again, I'd recommend against it. You actually got quite lucky that she had quads, which kept the kid size small. If you ever cross breeds, the doe should be from the larger breeder. We have a member on here who had a first freshener wind up with a c-section because she had a single kid that weighed 7 pounds!

  • Okay, the questions aren't over yet!  None of the kids seem interested in taking the bottle.  I've managed to get a little in the smallest doe by holding her and forcing a bit in with a syringe, hoping that would get her interested.  The last time she did seem to show a tiny bit of interest, but more interested in jumping around with the rest.  Maybe I'm just not catching her hungry?  Or is this normal until they catch on?  Just wondering if there is anything else I should be doing to make it easier.  I tried all the others thinking that any additional milk in any tummies might help, but they were the same.

  • I am glad you decided to supplement.  I supplemented my tiny one this past spring (1 lb. 10.5 oz.) and it worked very well; I started at 24 hours old (did not want regular milk filling her tummy so it didn't take room from colostrum).  I left her with mom and sisters, but she got all the milk she wanted because her human gave her more.  I bought goat milk from another ND person for her who was kind enough to put extra fat in her milk.  She did beautifully and was nearly as big as her sisters (who were twice her size at birth) when they left here.  My doe also did what yours is doing, seeming to know the little ones need more.  I saw her on several occasions, when all three were asleep, go to Tiny Baby and wake her up and nudge her to nurse, like she knew she needed more.  So Tiny Baby had the best of both worlds, some mother's milk and more to fill her up.  One thing I noticed when all three were playing, she was usually the one that went for lunch first with her sisters noticing and pushing her off!  Stinkers.

    I have two videos of Capri's triplets from last spring here, one is "Three Girls in a Turtle" taken at 15 days old, ten days after the other one taken at five days old, "Capri's Triplets."  These show how well she was doing even that early.  Perhaps you can see how much she "caught up" in just that ten-day difference.

    The sad part of this is that Capri had quints; even though I spent the night in her stall, I was out of the barn for a little less than half an hour when she had her babies - they came too fast for her to get them all cleaned up, specifically getting their bubbles broken.  After the tragedy last year, it hit me even harder than it would have if this had been the only time.  It factored heavily into my decision to sell her to a pet home with her two oldest girls. I hated to give up Tiny Baby for a variety of reasons but had to make a practical decision rather than an emotional one since I am limited to three adults and want milkers. It also ensured her mother a pet home so there would be no more lost babies.

  • Congratulations! It seems like your doe decided to show off a little. :)

    You will enjoy bottle feeding. I wouldn't want to do it all the time, but it is fun to have the little boogers around.

  • Thanks so much for the advice and pointing me to the post.  I will start supplementing tonight.  Better safe than sorry--I don't want to lose any kids.  

    And I'll try to post some pics soon!

  • I would bottlefeed two of the kids. There is no way that a first freshener is going to produce enough for four kids, and the littlest one won't be able to get enough because the others will knock her away. I've seen it too many times. I don't even try to leave little ones on mama any longer, if there are more than two. I had too many die.

    There is no need to add artificial colostrum to their bottle. They only need colostrum in the first 24 hours.

    As for her behavior ... some does don't have the personality to raise quads. They have to be willing to stand up twice as long as a doe that has twins, and some does just don't do that.

    Here is a post that I wrote about feeding multiples:

    http://www.homegrownandhandmadethebook.com/2014/04/how-many-kids-ca...

  • Congratulations on the quads! And a big "way to go" to Mama goat, an FF having 4 one-quarter  La Mancha kids is no small feat! (pun intended) With the way she's juggling the kids' nursing, she sounds like a natural. Got any pics?

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