I was reading a post today elsewhere that commented on an ff udder and said something to the effect of the buck was doing what he should with the udder development. I can understand how the buck would influence the kids, but how the developing udder of the doe he bred?
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What the David Funk article says is that the placenta is one of the main drivers of milk production, that it produces a hormone (placental lactogen) that through a cascade of interactions, leads to the characteristics of the doe's mature udder and thus milk production, and that these characteristics are lifelong, based on the first freshening, i.e., the first placenta's influence is lifelong. Since the placenta is genetically half from the doe and half from the sire, a sire which carries the genetics for making placentas that produce a lot of this hormone would be likely to have a positive influence on the milk production of the doe. So far, assuming the research is done well, I don't see a problem.
It is somewhat out of the normal range of thinking on the role of the sire, at least for me. Everyone agrees that the sire has a role in the milking characteristics of his daughters and I assume that that has been clearly demonstrated. (It just might be some sort of sex-linked phenomenon so that it is only inherited from the dam, etc.) I suppose the route/routes to that sire-effect is what is unclear. This article argues that one of the routes could well be how his genetics are imbedded in the genetics of the placentas in his daughters. Since 25% of the genetics of the placentas in his daughters would come from him, it could be significant, assuming the genetics of placental lactogen are fairly straight forward. It would also help explain why the route to "great milkers" is not a straight forward one, 25% not being 100%!
We are in the interesting position now of being able, over the course of a decade or so, to test some of this out if all goes well, since we have identical twin doe kids. We know they are identical because only one embryo was implanted but two kids popped out and they are as nearly alike as two peas in a pod. Since we will inevitably use different sires over them, by keeping the milk records, we should be able to see some signs of the validity (or invalidity) of the article. A long term experiment is about to start.... Watch this space for 10 years!
I have often wondered about the production results of Chenango Hills does because they are spectacular. David clearly was quite focussed on getting the best of his herd. I had assumed that in addition to good breeding and some great feeding, by having a small herd, perhaps the does were milked four times a day, or something like that, to stimulate increased production. I can't imagine how a doe like Goddess was able to sleep and eat at the same time to satisfy that production level, especially because she was not a large doe by stature. She was a beauty though, and depth of body was not a shortcoming by any standard! Wish I had a daughter, or perhaps a son would be more appropriate....
You are absolutely right when talking about offspring, and no one will disagree with that. You absolutely should look at the sire's dam's production, as well as her udder and teats because his doeling offspring will have a lot of traits that his mother had. What that article is suggesting is that the sire will have an effect on the dam's milk production for that lactation. It is NOT talking about the sire's offspring, which is why most people don't buy into it.
Maria Dietz said:
i didn't think so either.
Ah, that's why I said I was "pretty sure." I was leaving some wiggle room for the possibility that you'd found this article. It is highly controversial, and the vast majority of people don't think it's valid. It's interesting to see that David Funk tried this on his herd. He has some very high producing does, but he also has a very small herd. I wish he would have shared his actual numbers. Without seeing the numbers, I can't say whether I think it actually proves anything.
Here is the article that was being sited . it is just about as clear as mud to me.
https://sites.google.com/site/forgetmenotps/milk-production-how-bre...
Deborah Niemann-Boehle said:
I see, I suppose I was understanding it wrong, that makes more sense to me
Deborah Niemann-Boehle said:
I'm pretty sure they're talking about the sire of the first freshener, NOT the buck she was bred to.