We have had a reasonably successful kidding season at Prairie Fleur this year. Three singles and a set of twins so far altho one of the singles was dead at birth. The twins gave me a work out and I was Very thankful to have my mentor on the phone with me walking me thru it. It was the first birth the doe gave me enough warning to get out there before everything was over and I'm sure glad she did. We went out about 10:30 and finally about midnight she started pushing hard. 30 minutes later or so with very little progress I called my mentor and asked if I needed to intervene and if so when. Her response was, "NOW!" I soaped up and found part of the problem immediately. Back feet. I pushed them back in since baby obviously wasn't able to be born that way and started looking for front feet. There were legs Everywhere. I was sure there were at least triplets in there!!! I found a set of front feet but they didn't seem to have a head! By this time I was very stressed and an indeterminate amount of time had passed, with my dear hubby holding the phone on speaker while I alternated praying with asking questions and making exclamations to my mentor. I just couldn't find the head and I didn't Think that we had a deformed baby without a head or something. I mean, surely not! Right??? At long last my fingers touched a tiny head and I then had the process of bringing it around to rest on the front hooves. I was sure I was going to hurt the baby badly or break her neck or Something in the process. When I finally got her head around and the front feet out and saw the tiny face my heart sank. Tongue lolling and blue I was sure it was dead. Suddenly there was a head shake and a sneeze!! I finished pulling the baby out and started rubbing her down. Before I was finished another baby was presenting backwards and was out in the straw before I could help. I had a gentle feel inside to be sure that was all the babies and then we started working to get the babies dry and warned off. A black baby with frosting on her ears and a tiny buckskin that looked just like his daddy. I finally looked at the black to confirm she was a girl since my buck always puts his color on the boys and the girls get their mamas color. To my dismay the black was a Boy! I sadly went to check the buckskin, sure that we had two boys and to my amazement it was a Girl!! I double checked because I couldn't believe my eyes!!!! Lol baby girl was hypothermic and didn't want to nurse very well. We got a warm air blower of some kind that my hubby had and finally got her warmed up enough to nurse a bit. I was almost sick after I got done. I'd been a lot more stressed out that I realized while it was happening!
The other baby doe and buck that we have were each born without warning or fanfare and was dried off and tottering around when we found them. We're very thankful for all of them and that they're well and healthy. So far both bucks have been placed and the does are retained.
I've had some breech babies here as well (my husband has actually got in on seeing them born and I've missed it by a minute. Lol) and that wasn't my original concern. Thing was, mama was in hard labor for quite some time and was already exhausted with absolutely no progress. The hind legs I got first wouldn't bring the baby out when I tried gently pulling. I was afraid of hurting the doe. There was major resistance going on. From what I could tell the babies were not taking turns coming out. I didn't want to intervene too soon but was advised to by my mentor who's an experienced goat breeder. When I finally got the head and front legs of the baby doe out it was very easy to gently finish pulling her out. Seconds later the buck shot out backwards without help. I wasn't so concerned about him being breech as the fact that he was stuck and wouldn't slide at all. It was completely different feeling from when I gently helped the doe out. She slid slowly out when I gently pulled and he didn't budge at all when I gently pulled on his legs. The only way he moved was if I pushed him back in. And the interesting thing was, it was the baby doe that came out head first that seemed to be slightly oxygen deprived and not the breech buck. Thankfully they're both very healthy and happy now, as is the doe 4 weeks later. I did put her on something to be sure she wouldn't get an infection for a week or so after the babies were born and kept a very close eye on her. I wasn't as clear on this as I'd tried to be, sorry.
I'm sorry you went through that, and it was unfortunately not needed. I don't normally second guess births, but kids are born hind legs first all the time -- literally every day. We just had two breech kids born in the last two days here. It was actually 50/50 breech and head/hoof presentation. Probably 25% or more of kids come out that way or butt first, and it's perfectly fine. You could have simply pulled those hind legs, and the kid would have come right out. I suppose I got lucky that my first breech kid shot out while I was freaking out wondering what to do. Many times you don't even have to pull a breech, but if the hind legs are sticking out with zero progress for more than 10 minutes, I'd pull. Also, once the hind legs are fully out, you need to pull the rest of the kid out so that it can breath because when coming out breech, the cord might get broken before the head is out.
The only time you need to reach in there and re-arrange kids is if you have some weird presentation like ribs first or neck first with the head turned back over the spine. As you suspected, reaching in there can cause all sorts of problems, although not usually with the kids. It is not that hard to rupture a uterus because it is paper thin. I've had that happen to two does. You also need to treat with antibiotics because the doe will otherwise get a uterine infection, which you might not even realize immediately. They can wind up with one that simply causes them to be unable to get pregnant again.
Hopefully that next kidding was uneventful and you were able to see a natural birth. Remember that according to research 95% of births don't need assistance.
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Congrats on the babies!
I'm sorry you went through that, and it was unfortunately not needed. I don't normally second guess births, but kids are born hind legs first all the time -- literally every day. We just had two breech kids born in the last two days here. It was actually 50/50 breech and head/hoof presentation. Probably 25% or more of kids come out that way or butt first, and it's perfectly fine. You could have simply pulled those hind legs, and the kid would have come right out. I suppose I got lucky that my first breech kid shot out while I was freaking out wondering what to do. Many times you don't even have to pull a breech, but if the hind legs are sticking out with zero progress for more than 10 minutes, I'd pull. Also, once the hind legs are fully out, you need to pull the rest of the kid out so that it can breath because when coming out breech, the cord might get broken before the head is out.
The only time you need to reach in there and re-arrange kids is if you have some weird presentation like ribs first or neck first with the head turned back over the spine. As you suspected, reaching in there can cause all sorts of problems, although not usually with the kids. It is not that hard to rupture a uterus because it is paper thin. I've had that happen to two does. You also need to treat with antibiotics because the doe will otherwise get a uterine infection, which you might not even realize immediately. They can wind up with one that simply causes them to be unable to get pregnant again.
Hopefully that next kidding was uneventful and you were able to see a natural birth. Remember that according to research 95% of births don't need assistance.
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OH, the little lovelies! Sorry you lost one, but happy that you still have some healthy babies. Congratulations!
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