Hi everyone,
I'm hoping someone might have some thoughts. I have a small herd of does(9), it was commented on by a breeder that my yearlings looked smaller than they should at a show.
I feed free choice grass/alfalfa and they have access to 4 acres of pasture/browse during the daytime. They get goat chow with kelp, boss. Also have free access to Hoeggers Golden Blend minerals. They are looked at twice a year by a Vet (well goat check) and the last fecal was clear...
Yesterday I sold a doe back to her breeder and this is the comment she made when I asked about her size: "She is very tiny and I really want to try to help you figure out how to get more growth because afraid if they are this small there could be a lot of kidding issues. Right now she is the height and weight of our 3 month old doelings. None of our yearlings are small enough that they can be picked up anymore(average 60-70lbs). Will get a current weight on her sister but last time she was weighed a couple months ago she was more than double what Trillium weighs now. A slight size difference would be possible but should not be by such a large amount."
I am at an absolute loss...it really is depressing me to think I am doing something wrong...
I am attaching a pic of the doe
Replies
After I copper bolused everyone and have added some calf manna to their grain I have noticed weight/height gains as well. What kind of loose minerals do you feed Shannon?
I don't know how Rachel does it but I put them right on top of a small amount of grain and they scarfed it up and the copper was gone. I only had two that managed to eat and leave the copper in the bottom of the bowl. Somebody on here had said they feed it in maple and brown sugar oatmeal so I put a couple of spoons of cooked oatmeal in a bowl, poured on a dab of syrup, then put the COWP on the syrup. They ate that without knowing there was anything even there. I think next time I will just give them all the oatmeal for a treat w/the COWP!
I don't add anything. What I would do, is feed them one by one, and if I had one that doesn't seem to eat it all, I'd add unsulfured molasses to it's bowl of feed with the copper. I haven't met a goat that doesn't like molasses. :) All of my girls eat the copper just fine, so I've never had to add molasses to feed for copper dosing.
Hi Rachel, without having to search the threads....when you top dress obviously you need to feed them individually...but do you put something sticky (like molasses?) with the copper and their grain to make sure they get ingested? I bought a bag of marshmallows yesterday just to see if my girls would be receptive to it...probably about 50% of them liked them and the rest spit them out...so I know that won't work. I was going to bolus but wasn't looking forward to it...top dressing sounds MUCH better. Thanks!
YAY!! That's such great news!! (silly that the idea your herd might be deficient is "good" news... lol) I don't know if you've read any other threads here about COWP... but you can give it to them by top dressing their food and skip the bolus! (WAY easier) Also: A couple of us here have had goats that totally BLEW their coats after copper dosing. Don't be surprised or alarmed if this happens to any of your goats! It seems that there is a new coat waiting to grow in, and in my personal experience, the new coat is sleek once it's in.
Thanks everyone for the words of encouragement. :) It's funny how you "notice" things and don't really make a connection until you start reading about it. I don't know if this will help with my growth issue but I definitely have a herd showing copper deficiency. Part of them have the "fish tail" and I'm noticing dry skin on some, bleaching out on others. I just found out I may be able to get some copper boluses from a local goat dairy so I think I'm going to go pick some up so I can get the copper into them this weekend instead of waiting for my order. I also have some Bo-Se so will be injecting them with that also. I will weigh/measure everyone so I can see if there is progress.
Margaret, I do know that copper can be toxic to sheep, though I have been reading where they have been copper bolusing sheep with good results against worms. A local breeder has been "experimenting" with her flock of sheep feeding some copper and has noticed an improvement in hoof health (important in this soggy part of the country). I personally am not ready to experiment yet...
Deb, I am using the Calf Manna as a supplement, adding a scoop of it to two scoop of Purina Goat Chow (with BOSS and Kelp). I'm also giving them some alfalfa with their grass hay. Hopefully I just don't make them fat!!
Thanks again and I'll keep you posted with my progress......
So True, So True! That is really funny Glenna!
I am thinking of making a tiny pond in my yard for all my kids and have been wondering what they would do. I guess it could be really interesting now that I hear your story. I am thinking about 18" deep and maybe 8-10' across. I don't know if it would be to dangerous or if it should be more shallow in case they do want to go in for a wade.
I would have it done already if I knew exactly what to do about needing a pump/filter whatever but I am not sure what I would actually need. I am going to read up on it for a while and determine if I can do it now or if I need to at least wait til I have more money available for that little project.
The difference in the two babies causes me to think of my own children. My oldest son is 6', my youngest was 6'2", my middle son is 5'10" which, of course, is a 4-inch difference in the tallest and shortest. In photographs, it is unbelievably obvious as in the photos of these two precious kids. With my granddaughters (my middle son's children), the two older girls have always been small for their age almost to the point of being fragile while the youngest one is a husky young girl, not fat but definitely not the least bit fragile looking. My point is that even though these are full siblings, they are not that different from humans in their size difference. Perhaps, Mother Nature or God has given you goats who are smaller initially for them to be easier to handle? Then when they "catch up," you will surely have your hands full and think fondly to when they were smaller. They are healthy and happy and that is, after all, the most important thing of all.
I do understand your concerns as I was stressing over what others would consider minor things. The day I put them in the area with the fish pond, one by one, they went into it and got soaking wet up to the bellies, stinky wet. I had to hose their legs and undersides off and dried them as well as I could. When one of them sneezed, I freaked out, convinced they were getting pneumonia from their excursion - I even frantically called a friend who has goats! I laugh about it now but it was *not* funny that day. I still do *not* understand why the other two went in also; first it was Summer by accident who looked quite shocked when she got wet and was out even faster, then Ginger must have thought it was fun so went in next. Capri, old enough to know better, looked them over and went through it as well. Oh, well.
You love your babies, you are taking good care of them, they are healthy and happy. No goat can ask for more than that (or human for that matter).
I totally know where you're coming from! For the first five years I owned goats, I never had a buck live past the age of three, and I had does aborting left and right, not getting pregnant, not coming into heat. It was terrible. And in the midst of all that, I had one doe that was doing just fine, and when I sent her breeder a picture of her after her winning GCH at a show, she very nicely suggested that the doe might be copper deficient. I thought she was probably right but didn't know what to do because two vets had already told me that was impossible, and I was afraid of overdosing them. About a month later, a doe died, so I told the vet I wanted her liver tested for copper, and he told me I was wasting my money. Copper level came back at 4 when it should have been 25 to 150, so she was VERY deficient! And the rest, as they say, is history! I felt so terrible and shed so many tears over that situation, so I really do know how frustrating it is to be in your shoes. I'm not saying it is necessarily copper because a lot of nutrients are really important, but you'll get it figured out! You're doing everything you can! Today I have beautiful, healthy goats that get pregnant with triplets, quads, and even a set of quints! And they are producing far more milk than I ever dreamed possible a few years ago.
When you say you're feeding Calf Manna, I hope you just mean as a supplement, not as their sole ration. Too much protein is not good for them because their kidneys will have to work hard to excrete what they don't need. And if they are deficient in something that is causing them to be small, all the protein in the world isn't going to help them. I spent hundreds of dollars on every supplement in the goat catalogs back when my goats were having problems, and all of those supplements did absolutely nothing to improve the situation because they were not giving the goats the one thing they really needed. So, just concentrate on trying to figure out what they really need. You will get it figured out!
You will be just fine. Glad you ordered the copper, it has helped mine A LOT. Their ragged winter coats fell out, fish tails are disappearing, getting sleek and beautiful AND they ARE GROWING a lot faster now. I have even been able to breed a few of them for fall kids!
You do know NOT to let your sheep get into that copper RIGHT?
What kind of copper did you order? Was it the COWP copper boluses for cows? Just get the dosage right!
They were out of the calf size when I ordered mine and I had to get the cow ones. I should never need anymore! EVER!
HANG IN THERE SWEETHEART!
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