Nigerian Dwarf Dairy Goats

for people who love the littlest dairy goats

I was feeding noble goat 16 grower to all the goats,  because it had ammonium chloride in it for the male.  I went to tractor supply and saw they had noble goat and the ingredients had ammonium chloride.  Then I saw MEDICATED.  I asked the girl what is the difference, she told me that medicated meant the ammonium chloride.  I knew that was wrong but I was focused on other things and didn't say anything and went ahead and bought it. 

The questions are, can I just give it to them with out slowly switching (wouldn't think so as it's pretty much the same stuff)

The medicated is safe right, (they wouldn't sell it if it wasn't?)


Thanks

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thanks Rachel...great advice...

Rachel Whetzel said:

Deborah,

Unless your goat HAS Coccidiosis, you really don't need to be feeding medicated chow. In fact, feeding medicated chow to goats that aren't sick can make the medication useless if you ever DO need it, because the parasites that cause Coccidiosis can build up a resistance to the medication.

Deborah Painchaud said:

This is interesting cause I am feeding Piper a mix of noble goat (medicated) and some grains I mix my self..(sunflower seeds with shell, wheat berries, and buckwheat groats) and I couldn't get a straight answer about switching her when she freshens...I think I will anyway cause I am not sure I want medicated goat grain as a basis for my milk...any thoughts?

that link was cool..thanks for sharing...

Trish said:

I know that nuts (sunflower seeds) and pumpkins seeds have copper..  top ten foods that are high in copper  http://www.healthaliciousness.com/articles/high-copper-foods.php

Deborah Painchaud said:

This is interesting cause I am feeding Piper a mix of noble goat (medicated) and some grains I mix my self..(sunflower seeds with shell, wheat berries, and buckwheat groats) and I couldn't get a straight answer about switching her when she freshens...I think I will anyway cause I am not sure I want medicated goat grain as a basis for my milk...any thoughts?

I dont nor never have fed medicated feed - and from what I have read, unless the goat is a wether - urinary calculi isnt a problem that usually presents - correct?  I dont feed the ammonium chloride - but I am new to having bucks also.

Deborah Niemann-Boehle said:

Yes, the sales clerk was wrong. Ammonium chloride is not a drug. Medicated means that it contains a coccidiostat, which is a drug. It should not be given to milkers because the medication would pass through the milk, but is approved for feeding to non-milking animals. I personally don't like medicated feeds because they are doing the job of the immune system, so my personal opinion is that you wind up with more sickly animals in the long run. Since medicated feeds are often fed to meat animals, however, there is no "long term" health issue for them because they have short lives. A single bag won't "hurt" them, but it's not particularly good for them either. People usually feed medicated feed to kids because they often have problems with coccidiosis, which is basically a management issue that became a problem that some people prefer to solve with drugs.

this brings to mind - I use Payback Goat Minerals Plus in the winter cause it doesnt absorb moisture as bad as Sweetlix Meat Maker (though they seem to like the taste better of the sweetlix) - anyway, my vet was quite surprised at the ratio of calcium/phos. 16/8  - (linear thinking I suppose)

Urinary calculi can present in bucks too. I attended a class that a vet in my area said in his practice, it didn't seem discriminatory, but that he thought there might be some to truth to the idea that it was more common in wethers because of issues with castration. This is one reason people suggest castration as late as possible... but bucks can get it also.

Melissa Johnson said:

I dont nor never have fed medicated feed - and from what I have read, unless the goat is a wether - urinary calculi isnt a problem that usually presents - correct?  I dont feed the ammonium chloride - but I am new to having bucks also.

Deborah Niemann-Boehle said:

Yes, the sales clerk was wrong. Ammonium chloride is not a drug. Medicated means that it contains a coccidiostat, which is a drug. It should not be given to milkers because the medication would pass through the milk, but is approved for feeding to non-milking animals. I personally don't like medicated feeds because they are doing the job of the immune system, so my personal opinion is that you wind up with more sickly animals in the long run. Since medicated feeds are often fed to meat animals, however, there is no "long term" health issue for them because they have short lives. A single bag won't "hurt" them, but it's not particularly good for them either. People usually feed medicated feed to kids because they often have problems with coccidiosis, which is basically a management issue that became a problem that some people prefer to solve with drugs.

Right Rachel, but what I've found by research, it's when the wethers are castrated young before the urinary and testes are fully developed, is where the UC can present itself.  When the bucks are older, like 6 months +, and the plumbing is already developed, the chances are quite minimal that they will get the stones.

Rachel Whetzel said:

Urinary calculi can present in bucks too. I attended a class that a vet in my area said in his practice, it didn't seem discriminatory, but that he thought there might be some to truth to the idea that it was more common in wethers because of issues with castration. This is one reason people suggest castration as late as possible... but bucks can get it also.

Melissa Johnson said:

I dont nor never have fed medicated feed - and from what I have read, unless the goat is a wether - urinary calculi isnt a problem that usually presents - correct?  I dont feed the ammonium chloride - but I am new to having bucks also.

Deborah Niemann-Boehle said:

Yes, the sales clerk was wrong. Ammonium chloride is not a drug. Medicated means that it contains a coccidiostat, which is a drug. It should not be given to milkers because the medication would pass through the milk, but is approved for feeding to non-milking animals. I personally don't like medicated feeds because they are doing the job of the immune system, so my personal opinion is that you wind up with more sickly animals in the long run. Since medicated feeds are often fed to meat animals, however, there is no "long term" health issue for them because they have short lives. A single bag won't "hurt" them, but it's not particularly good for them either. People usually feed medicated feed to kids because they often have problems with coccidiosis, which is basically a management issue that became a problem that some people prefer to solve with drugs.

I have been told that feeding medicated PREVENTS Coccidiosis for babies... ??  Which brings me to the question....on the Purina Goat Chow that is medicated...does it say MEDICATED on the front of the 50 lbs bag?  I could have sworn I saw it on the bag at tractor supply when I got it and I took the tag off which confirmed it was medicated...but when I went to look at it again, there is no MEDICATED listed on the bag itself....  anyone know about this?

Deborah Painchaud said:

thanks Rachel...great advice...

Rachel Whetzel said:

Deborah,

Unless your goat HAS Coccidiosis, you really don't need to be feeding medicated chow. In fact, feeding medicated chow to goats that aren't sick can make the medication useless if you ever DO need it, because the parasites that cause Coccidiosis can build up a resistance to the medication.

Deborah Painchaud said:

This is interesting cause I am feeding Piper a mix of noble goat (medicated) and some grains I mix my self..(sunflower seeds with shell, wheat berries, and buckwheat groats) and I couldn't get a straight answer about switching her when she freshens...I think I will anyway cause I am not sure I want medicated goat grain as a basis for my milk...any thoughts?

In the class I took, there were two people there, who had bucks that had gotten it, and one of them had a buck die from it.

Trish said:

Right Rachel, but what I've found by research, it's when the wethers are castrated young before the urinary and testes are fully developed, is where the UC can present itself.  When the bucks are older, like 6 months +, and the plumbing is already developed, the chances are quite minimal that they will get the stones.

Right, because of too much phosphorus/grain for the male.  Bucks can get it w/o the Ammonium Chloride and or Apple cider vinegar.  The wethers, castrated later no so much, but wethers castrated younger, possible.

You didn't mention how old the bucks were and the feed they were given?

Rachel Whetzel said:

In the class I took, there were two people there, who had bucks that had gotten it, and one of them had a buck die from it.

Trish said:

Right Rachel, but what I've found by research, it's when the wethers are castrated young before the urinary and testes are fully developed, is where the UC can present itself.  When the bucks are older, like 6 months +, and the plumbing is already developed, then castrated,  the chances are quite minimal that they will get the stones.

Except that, Coccidiosis is a parasite. Here's some information about it: http://www.sweetlix.com/media/documents/articles/Goat_005.pdf

Basically, "preventions" like medicated feed are band-aides covering up poor herd management (especially in larger herds)

Prevention can also come from elimination of poor living conditions, etc. Even Sweetlix site says "Care should be taken to use coccidiostats properly. Indiscriminant use of coccidiostats can result in populations
of coccidia that develop resistance to the given coccidiostat."

Trish said:

I have been told that feeding medicated PREVENTS Coccidiosis for babies... ??  Which brings me to the question....on the Purina Goat Chow that is medicated...does it say MEDICATED on the front of the 50 lbs bag?  I could have sworn I saw it on the bag at tractor supply when I got it and I took the tag off which confirmed it was medicated...but when I went to look at it again, there is no MEDICATED listed on the bag itself....  anyone know about this?

Deborah Painchaud said:

thanks Rachel...great advice...

Rachel Whetzel said:

Deborah,

Unless your goat HAS Coccidiosis, you really don't need to be feeding medicated chow. In fact, feeding medicated chow to goats that aren't sick can make the medication useless if you ever DO need it, because the parasites that cause Coccidiosis can build up a resistance to the medication.

Deborah Painchaud said:

This is interesting cause I am feeding Piper a mix of noble goat (medicated) and some grains I mix my self..(sunflower seeds with shell, wheat berries, and buckwheat groats) and I couldn't get a straight answer about switching her when she freshens...I think I will anyway cause I am not sure I want medicated goat grain as a basis for my milk...any thoughts?

I guess everyone has their opinion. Some website are good some for just opinions as well.   I  am learning more from the 4H/livestock person at the University that is trained for this...as well as absorbing info on forums for later assimilation.

Ahhhh  I meant noble goat medicated, not purina goat chow...  duhhhhhhhhhh.

Trish said:

I have been told that feeding medicated PREVENTS Coccidiosis for babies... ??  Which brings me to the question....on the Purina Goat Chow that is medicated...does it say MEDICATED on the front of the 50 lbs bag?  I could have sworn I saw it on the bag at tractor supply when I got it and I took the tag off which confirmed it was medicated...but when I went to look at it again, there is no MEDICATED listed on the bag itself....  anyone know about this?

Deborah Painchaud said:

thanks Rachel...great advice...

Rachel Whetzel said:

Deborah,

Unless your goat HAS Coccidiosis, you really don't need to be feeding medicated chow. In fact, feeding medicated chow to goats that aren't sick can make the medication useless if you ever DO need it, because the parasites that cause Coccidiosis can build up a resistance to the medication.

Deborah Painchaud said:

This is interesting cause I am feeding Piper a mix of noble goat (medicated) and some grains I mix my self..(sunflower seeds with shell, wheat berries, and buckwheat groats) and I couldn't get a straight answer about switching her when she freshens...I think I will anyway cause I am not sure I want medicated goat grain as a basis for my milk...any thoughts?

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