Hi I'm from the Midwest and have mixed herd. I have standards with only 2 pure bred Toggenburg girls. Everything else is mixed milk and meat with the big girls. I have Oberhasli, Saneen, a small amount of Alpine and the Togg in the standard sized goats. Boer and Savanah and a little bit of Fainter on the meat size. In my mini's I have a mini Ober that I believe was bred to an ND and had a little nanny baby on her when I bought her. The rest are ND and Pygmy cross from what I can tell. The profile pic I have is of my Mini buck and I believe he may be a cross. Would love to hear some opinions on him...breed wise.
I started milking 2 of my girls recently. I have also held back two boys this year to strengthen the milking in my herd. I have a gene mutation that is somewhat rare and the goat milk has been AMAZING for changing my health. When I am able to get fresh colostrum from one of them, I do....as long as the baby(s) have had plenty. It is incredible for inflammation and adding the enzymes it gives has been a God send. I am now neck deep in goat milking and plan to be for the rest of my life. I just started milking a few weeks ago and am a bit overwhelmed, however I do want and need to make goat soap, lotion and any other goat milk product that comes in contact with the skin. I also have been reading on Clabbering(? hope I am spelling that right) and goat cheese. The goat milk has become a life change for me and is very healing so I am looking to connect and get advice here.
I do have 2 mini's that must have pygmy in them as they are a little more heavy and their coats are more course to the touch. I do not think they are full pygmy though. They are fully miniature bred...not halves for sure. Cuties. I go hiking with them regularly when the weather is good for them. They stay right with me and seem to love it. I really enjoy the little goats but love all of them.
Glad to be here and hope to learn.
Replies
Good to know on dewormer and the heavy load goats. I had read in your article about the wormwood. Glad to know about the inconsistencies. I can probably grow it here as well. She will take minced garlic if I don't over feed her with it andit does help. It's been a while since I have read on it but it does something like strengthen or cleanse the red blood cells. I have used it on her to delay the worming slightly if her poo clumpse a little before the 4-5 week marker.
Yes, on the testing, I had told my vet I had a feeling she was a sale barn goat and it was obvious she was not healthy once I got her home so he suggested having both the adult goats tested.
Thanks so much for the advice, info and suggestions. Will be looking for the herbs that strengthen her immune system. She can use all the help she can get.
I tried three of the most popular herbal dewormers and none of them worked when a goat had a a heavy case of worms. I personally use wormwood that I grow on my farm when one of my goats has a problem. I originally was buying wormwood, but it worked inconsistently. Some herbs are also good for strengthening the immune system.
Yes, once she is no longer copper deficient, she will handle worm loads much better.
I'm glad you had them tested for diseases. It would be especially sad, if after all of this hard work, you discovered they had a fatal disease.
Yes, it worked out this time...she and I needed each other, I think. Thank you for the article. I read it. Will be talking with my husband about pasture rotation. I have wondered in the back of my head of the herbal wormers would be better for her specifically while I try and keep this under control and get her copper levels up. If the copper is low and is the problem the worming should cut back naturally as well....right? . Seems some of the multi ingredient wormers basically strengthen the goats immunity to the worms so that they can handle it better...not necessarily stop the worms. Do you have any thoughts on that? Thanks.
Wow! Sounds like you've been through a lot with her, and she is doing much better than when you got her. I'm glad she didn't wind up in the hands of someone completely new or uncaring.
It's not a good idea to use a dewormer regularly. Although it is working now, the more you use it, the closer you get to dewormer resistance. Here is more info on that:
http://thriftyhomesteader.com/dewormer-resistance-in-goats/
Agreed on all you said about sale barns....I was attempting to avoid that. Fortunately, I am not new to livestock and have done mostly rescue and recovery types with horses and a few cows. Sick or injured animals are nothing new to me. That said, she is a very gentle sweet soul. Glad she ended up with me or vice versa, I ended up with her. I'm not sure if she has been milked before. I actually don't think so. She has been really good about the entire process of me learning and I don't even have her up on a milk stand yet. The goat milk and colostrum has really turned my health around since it is so easy to digest. With MTFHR (gene mutation) your methylation process in your body is effected and absorbing nutrients is a major issue. The goat milk is packed with very easily digested vitamins and minerals. The powdered colostrum I have been mixing in it is amazing for inflammation in the body and the nutrition it supplies. When I bought Ally I was not looking for a milk goat. She was in a pen with a meat goat that had a baby on her I wanted but Ally and the meat goat seemed to get a long. Ally looked lethargic but her baby looked beautiful and healthy. I made a deal for all 4 of them and that was that. She is my life saver in a way and I know I have helped her and am still trying.
I did have her and the other goat tested for both. We have cattle and have labs done on them so my vet let me know. He did let me know about the barber poles. The initial visit with him he suggested we treat for them. When I bought her her eyelids where white. We got that under control with worming her and I eventually added red cell a B complex and have recently given her BOSE. Her eyelids go light colored without the Red Cell and she gets lethargic. I dose her once or twice a week, half an ounce. I keep her on a monthly worming schedule as well. The rest of the herd I watch. From what I have read about the cooper it really could be her underlying issue. I bolused her yesterday. I will take your advice and watch her and see what she is like in 3 months.
Her recent fecal was ok. I had it done 7 days after she gave birth. My vet told me it was pretty rare for an after birth fecal. He thought it was low. I've had fecals done on her a few times since the initial one. They have all been low counts and I dud have one cone back clean on a recheck. Another reason to look at the underlying issue as cooper...don't you think? This time he said she did have some brown stomach worms and he thought that her cocci count was borderline...not high but elevated because of the stomach worms most likely. Her poo is classic if she is having problems...that is why I ran the fecal. It clumps. She pebbles when all is well....so far.
Thank you for the advice. We will see if the milk drenches help in the long run...if anything the goats milk has some copper in it...so will be getting a little in for sure everyday. :)
It makes me so sad to hear about people trading livestock as if they were lifeless commodities. I hate to see it but you could have bought some real problems. People generally take goats to the sale barn because they want to get rid of problems. Have you had them tested for CAE of Johnes?
I wouldn't necessarily give copper to the Togg two months in a row. You should watch her and see how she does after the first dose. If her coat starts coming back in dark, there is no need to give her another one for at least 3 months.
I have heard of people giving a goat's milk to her if she has mastitis. The idea is that it will cause her body to mount an immune response, although I don't know if there is any real science behind that idea.
Goats that are copper deficient can appear anemic, so they may be fine after you bolus them. However, anemia is also a sign of barber pole worm, and I'm concerned that your vet did not mention this to you. Are the inside of the eyelids pale pink or white or bright red? What did the fecal show? Is she pooping pebbles or clumps?
Thank you so much! This article is very good and useful. I love stats so this is perfect. I have fish tail in my herd, nearly all of them. My Togg mom, when I bought her had a faded coat. It changed over the Summer. I bolused her twice, she had excellent browse, feed and alfalfa. I noticed this winter her coat going back to how it was but figured it was the undercoat coming in. After talking to you I am sure she is fading. She has fish tail as well. I lost one mom to prolapse at birthing in early February. She also had the fish tail and came with the Togg mom. I bought them off an individual that had goats and cows. In hind sight, I believe he was buying at a local sale barn then "flipping' them to make a profit. The babies they had with them are pretty healthy, except for the fish tail. I think I will up my bolus to every 3 months for my herd. I will bolus the Togg mom a few months in a row then scale her back to every other month over this year and see what results I get. I give her red cell and minced garlic weekly and that has seemed to help. She seems anemic but possible the cooper is the issue. If you have any suggestions I would like to know them. Thank you so much for the information and for adding me to the forum.
Also, my vet and I spoke last week. I had a fecal ran on the Togg mom. I spoke to him about her possible being anemic. I have been researching Goat Milk for myself and have read where it can prevent anemia in humans. I told him that and asked if I could drench her with her own milk and a small amount of powdered colostrum to help her health and see if it aided her health as well. He told me yes and said he thought it was a good idea. Have you ever heard of this? Thought it might be useful or at least interesting to mention. So, far so good. It is definitely not hurting her and she seems to have more energy and her milk production has gone up slightly...but that could be her baby growing as well.
Last year I surveyed goat owners about their copper practices, and of 570 respondents, only once said they supplement monthly, and two said every month or two. Everyone else did it less frequently, so that means than less than 1% of herds need to be supplemented that often. The post I wrote is here:
http://thriftyhomesteader.com/is-copper-oxide-really-safe-for-goats/
You won't see the numbers for every month or two because I didn't give that as an option because I'd never heard of anyone doing it more often than every 3 months. However, I had an "other" option, and people wrote in what they did, and that's where I found the 3 people who did every month or two.
I really doubt your goats need it THAT often. I always say to watch your goats. As soon as you start to see fading or fish tails or balding on the face, that's a good sign that they need copper. The vast majority of people do it every 3-6 months.
Hi Debroah,
I have had all of mine for a year. I bought mostly babies and 3 nannies with babies on them last early Spring, Seventeen total. I have copper bloused them twice and have planned to bolus them and do their shot updates this coming weekend. I had originally read to bolus them twice a year but have recently met some people that will bolus them monthly. I use loose mineral with 1600ppm's in it and it is in buckets in all the shelters so they have access to it all the time and they do use it. What are your thoughts on the amount of bolusing?
We do have sulfur in our well water. We put a filter system in a few years ago but not sure the pipes on our property don't need replaced so some sulfur could be getting in the stock tanks. That is good to know. The 2 that have the more course hair....their hair is still soft..it is just a different, thicker texture. The strands are thicker and "fine and silky" like the others. I possibly did not give enough detail but still glad to know about the water.
I understand about the double post. Thank you for letting me know.
Hi, Rachelle, and welcome to the group! Glad to hear that the goat milk and colostrum help your health.
Your profile pic is pretty dark, so it's hard to see your buck, but he looks pretty pygmy-like.
If your goats' coats are course, that could be copper deficiency. It's not a breed trait. If you have sulfur, iron, or calcium in your well water, that can cause it. Have you had them long enough to know if their coat is fading?
This is a small group, so there's really no need to cross post the same thing under more than one category. The way the group is set up, you see all new messages on the home page with the newest ones first. Since this is an intro and does not ask any particular questions about dairy, I deleted the copy that you posted in the dairy section. If you have any particular questions about goat milk, cheese, soap, and so on, feel free to create a new post with those questions.