Molly's Herbal Dewormer

I've just been browsing the Fiasco Farms site, after reading way too much complicated literature on goat worms.  I think I'm going to take the plunge and give the Molly's herbal dewormer regimen a shot.  Anybody tried it?  Anybody know a reason not to try it?
Thanks!

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  • Perfect! Ideally, you won't need to use any type of dewormer in a goat ever. Hopefully worst case scenario is that a doe needs it after kidding if she's a yearling because her immune system is not fully developed yet. But I'm experimenting with having does be first fresheners as 2-year-olds now to see how that affects their worm status.

    Melissa said:

    Thank you for your input, Deborah!  I just received your book in the mail today, so I'll read through parasite section now and continue my research!

  • Thank you for your input, Deborah!  I just received your book in the mail today, so I'll read through parasite section now and continue my research!

  • I've continued researching and finally decided to just grow my own wormwood. It is not nearly as toxic as people claim. I've had goats eat quite a lot and be perfectly fine. Actually it doesn't work unless they eat a lot, so all of those people who have you feeding a tablespoon of some mixed herbs are not using enough, as Dr. Burke hypothesized when I talked to her about it. 

    The main reason I don't recommend any is because you don't get a big kill rate, although you may kill enough to make one particular goat feel better. For example, I gave an ounce of fresh wormwood to a goat that had a high level of worms. She only ate half an ounce. I was treating her because her milk supply had dropped suddenly, she was pooping like a dog, and she seemed a little slow. A fecal showed a lot of eggs. Within two days she seemed perfect again, so looked like a total success. But a follow-up fecal showed that it had only killed 50% of the worms. That's fine because it eliminated all of her symptoms, so I was happy, but if she had been severely ill, a 50% kill rate would have done nothing for her. A dewormer is not considered clinically effective unless it is killing 95% of worms or more. 

    I haven't looked at the other dewormer that you mentioned, but there is no reason to be feeding herbs to your goats on a weekly basis like the Molly's instructs you to do. You can totally get control of worms with simple management that is basically free. If you have my book, there's about 24 pages in there about parasite management, which is way more than just giving a dewormer (whether chemical, herbal, or other, such as copper oxide). If you're in Goats 365, there are about a dozen parasite videos in there. If you're not in there and don't have my book, I can give you links to my website articles. 

    I noticed the link above no longer works, so I searched online and found the study on Molly's here, so you can read it:

    https://naldc.nal.usda.gov/download/35312/PDF

  • I'm just researching herbal dewormers and wondered if you have found anything that you liked. I see this discussion was in 2010, is there anything you've found that works since?  I was looking at Molly's and Land of Havilah. I'm leaning toward Land of Havilah just off of the reviews.

  • Just found this research and wanted to share it:
    http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6TD7-...
    The scientist who did this research is seriously trying to find an alternative to chemical dewormers. I interviewed her a couple years ago about copper oxide wire particles, which do have some effectiveness against haemonchus contortus. Sadly, the Molly's did nothing to reduce the worm load. She does say in the conclusion, however, that perhaps the dosage needs to be higher. That's tricky though, because wormwood is thought to be toxic at higher levels.
  • Bummer! I think I might follow your lead, Marcy, and continue to use the herbs anyway but not rely on them as a wormer. Deborah, I'm glad you brought up checking after kidding. Seems like that would be the real test of the herbs.
    What do you ladies recommend, then, from the more conventional wormers? And I assume you only use those when you have to and after kidding? Any other time?
  • I've used Molly's on the first five goats that have kidded so far, and I'm really disappointed. I gave it to them for three days after kidding, and again for one day a week later, even though she says you only need to do it about every six weeks. A month after kidding, the first three goats are losing weight and have C scores in FAMACHA, so I'm going to do fecals on them tomorrow.

    Yesterday, I did a fecal on a goat that kidded two weeks ago, so she just got Molly's last week (single dose) and the week before (three doses) when she kidded. She is pooping soft logs like a dog, instead of normal goat berries. Her FAMACHA score is a D; it was an A before kidding. Her worm load is terribly high -- I counted 20 eggs without even moving the slide, so there were probably 100+ eggs on the slide. Prior to kidding I found three eggs on the whole slide, which is about as good as it gets with goats (or any animal that eats off the ground). I was going to do the three day treatment again and gave her Molly's last night in her feed, but tonight when I tried to give her the herbal dewormer, she pawed the pan with her front hoof and knocked it over. When I got another pan and tried to hold it, she was trying to knock it out of my hand. Guess she's decided she doesn't like it, so she's being removed from my little study.
  • In September, I tried it on one doe after she kidded, and I'd put a 1/4 cup on her feed twice a day. That totally coats it and makes it look white. She seemed to be doing great until about six weeks after she kidded, and then she started pooping logs instead of berries. I was not doing fecals at the time, but I will this spring, so I will know what's really going on. There is *something* in the DE that some goats really love though. I was using it with a buck, and he'd lick the pan clean. I had two bucks that had serious worm problems last fall, and the Molly's and DE didn't work for either of them. I then used Cydectin, but it was too late for the one buck. He was already too anemic and couldn't bounce back. DE is one of those things (like apple cider vinegar) that just has a lot of good "stuff" in it, trace minerals, etc, that's good for animals, so I'll continue using it. The only question I have is how much I can rely on it to help with parasites. People who say that it's good for parasites emphasize that you have to use a lot, because it's not a poison. It kills the parasites on physical contact.

    Gerilee Hundt said:
    Deborah, please tell me how you administer the DE. I have just ordered Molly's dewormer for my goats but I'm really curious about the DE (partly because I have a 50-lb bag of it I use in the chicken coop).

    Thanks,
    Gerilee

  • Thanks Abby! My guys are on such a tight schedule that I think the regularity issue will work out well for us.
    You make an excellent point about deworming for the worm, too.
    I think the famancha test is incredibly helpful as an overview and with only a handful of goats running around I plan on doing it often. I'm totally in the market for a microscope now too, you girls have me convinced!

    Abigail Lippmann said:
    Hi everyone!
    I have used Molly Herbal wormer and I liked it a lot. You have to make sure they get the right dosing when they need it and not miss any for it to work. It also seemed to boost there immune system. Which I do believe that if they have a healthy immune system they can fight off worms. It was two summers ago that I used it. I did start making my own dewormer. The reason why I had not continued with it is because I was not good at getting them the dosing on time. I plan to go back to it this Spring again.
    The worm Debra was talking about that killed her buck has been terrible this past year and very few wormers are working on it. Numerous people and species have had problems with it this past year. I think it is a sign of more problems to come! I had one buck who also came very close to dieing from it. Through fecals and working with my vets we goat a wormer that killed the worm and he is doing much better. The best thing that I can recommend with any kind of worming program is to do fecals more then once a year and famancha testing of the eyes! You will learn a lot that way about your goats. I can not say if the herbal wormer would have worked with that worm cause I did not try it.

    Abby
    Oak Hollow Acres
  • Was it Molly's or a different one? And were you giving her the wormwood formula for two weeks straight? (She has two different formulas.)
    Thanks!

    Tracy Fawley said:
    I have been using it for about 3 months on my guys that I was previously using Safeguard on. All are very healthy, vibrant, fat and sassy. Got a new girl 3 weeks ago, not in good shape. 6 years old, bounced around and not well cared for. Had a big worm load. Put her on the herbal for 2 weeks had her tested and worm load was significantly reduced. I like it! No throwing out milk and she is now shedding out nasty washed out coat and new coat is shiny and beautiful strawberry blond instead of bleached blonde if you can get my meaning about the contrast. I think the herbal alternatives are a good way to go!
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