Well, we are on the way: the first nigerians in Australia....
We cycled 21 does for surrogate work, but on the day, only 16 were ready and "willing." Sixteen embryos were implanted. We only did one per doe (I had thought to do 2 embryos per doe) but the vet doing the laparoscopic implanting said that more than one embryo per doe actually leads to a decrease in the success rate. He also said that the freezing of the embryos is hard on them and so to expect about 50% success (= 8 kids) when I asked how many kids to expect. I told him that that was the wrong answer.
The surrogate does are feral goat crosses. The vet said that they are the most fertile, that they had the most receptive wombs and "would get pregnant on a puff of wind" they are so fertile.
Now we wait nervously to see how many implants "took" and that wait is the hard part. Our great hope is that we don't get 8 bucklings! And maybe, just maybe, we will get 16 kids. (Actually, we could possibly get 17, because under the microscope, one of the embryos had cleaved into two, so if that takes, it would be identical twins!)
We won't know anything positive for a couple of months. Of course, if any of the surrogates comes into heat sooner, we will know that she is probably not carrying one of our kids.
The embryo list is on the blog page: http://firstfleetdairygoats.wordpress.com/
We plan to take the kids from the surrogates early and bottle raise them. This is because the herd of surrogates is a three hour drive from our home, but that's another story.
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Michael,
On another group I belong to (on facebook), someone asked if there were NDs in other countries. I gave them the thumbnail version of what you are doing and posted a photo of Chloe telling them they had the honor of seeing the first Nigerian Dwarf doe born in Australia. Of course, I credited you with your own photo.
I am hoping for you that this little girl is as good a milker (and kidder) for you as my junior doe (Summer) has been for me. You might have seen my updated milk brag posted in November. She has been such a pleasant surprise. I wish you an entire herd of little girls at least as good as she is!
It is absolutely amazing that you are introducing NDs to an entire continent!
I'm not sure if its possible to obtain embryos from Debrah, but I've heard and read that she raises good milkers with proven milk records.
Phebe,
We have DNA profiles of the donor animals for the embryos and straws. We had to have these for import of the genetic material into Australia. We have done DNA profiles of the kids and DNA proof of parentage. This is necessary for registration.
I was hoping you knew of some DNA markers which were linked to great lactation in the does. Thanks anyway for the interest and advice anyway.
I think that we are faced with a long period of trial and error to get to a herd of reliable milkers. We do have some advantages available to us that were not around for earlier breeders; if we come up with a particularly good breeding for milk production (sire and dam combination) we have the possibility of super-ovulating and embryo transfer technology to quickly produce a lot of little milkers from that breeding match. It is costly, but is one tool available for anyone trying hard to get a herd of top quality milking does, and of course, first one has to have that good pairing with which to start.
I can understand why Australia doesn't want scrapie. It's a pretty nasty disease. It seems like they should give some of us credit who have had a closed herd for x number of years. Even though I have sheep, I haven't purchased a new one in seven or eight years or so, and the only ones that have died were killed by a coyote or died at age 11 or 12. But of course, I'm not on the official voluntary program, so they're just taking my word for it. I've looked at what you have to do to get a certified scrapie-free herd or flock, and it's a lot of work. I think you have to be under surveillance for five years initially.
I'm not sure what Phebe meant about DNA testing. The only thing they really have right now for goats is to prove parentage. There is all sorts of testing available for cattle, but who knows when they'll have it for goats. We're considered a "minor species."
Although you can increase milk supply in some goats, you can't push them beyond their genetics. Proper management is very important, but if a goat's dam never sustained a lactation for more than six months in spite of good management, the odds are not great for her daughter unless mama was bred to a buck that might improve on that. We bought about 15-20 does when we were getting started and sold about 2/3 of them after a freshening or two because their production was not very good.
When I purchased my doe, she was in the process of being dried up. She was only being milked once a day, and making about 300cc of milk. I began milking her twice a day, and then 4 times. I would milk her in the morning at 8am and milk her to completion, then wait and milk her again at 9am. Then I would milk her at 8pm, then again at 9pm. I got her up to about 650cc per 24hours.
When I had my last child, she was born with medical problems, and needed to be tube fed. My only option to breastfeed was by pumping milk. I nursed her when she had good days, but pumped most of the time. If I could not produce enough milk, I would pump breast milk until no more milk could be pumped. Then I would wait a half hour to an hour, and pump again. Its "tricking" the body into making more milk. Its the same way the mammal knows to make more milk for a growing baby. Baby is going through a growth spurt, and nurses more frequently and empties the breast each time. The next day, mom's body knows it needs to make more milk for growing baby.
At one point I was feeding about 5 or more babies in the NICU. I got very good at tricking my body into making more milk :-)
Good luck!! It is frustrating - boy - if I could- I'd put a couple kids in my coat and travel to Australia for you..... and be warm and have fun with goats. Can't wait to hear about your whopping success!
Judy with 11 of the cuties!!!!
Phebe,
Is there a DNA test that would indicate high potential for great milk production? That would be perfect!
Regarding practices to increase milk production (and quality??) - not being a female mammal myself - I need more information. Do you mean simply milking out the udder more times per day? Is that also a way to actually increase the volume the udder can produce at each milking?
Deborah,
We had a lot of hoops! That is for sure. All of them were for medical conditions though. The Australian Quarantine Service considers all goats as just that..., goats. Cashmere are equal to Saanens; Boers are equal to Nigerian Dwarf goats. The biggest concern is that scrapies will get into the Australian sheep and goat herds. It was up to me to develop a "herd" of animals to produce the embryos and unfortunately, but understandably, no one was willing to sell me a Superior Genetics, etc., five year old great milking doe, nor the equivalent buck. We only were able to obtain the does we did get after a long search, and most came from herds which do not record. In the end we got what we could, and of the eleven does we purchased, due to advanced age and other issues, five never gave us any viable embryos. To be fair, we did have some offers of some great does and bucks, but they couldn't pass all the medical requirements. For example, no goat we were to acquire could ever have shared a paddock with a sheep. It was interesting how many herds that ruled out.
Thanks to both of you,
Michael
I know there are all sorts of special hoops you have to go through to import/export goats and/or semen and embryos to/from other countries, but I find it interesting that a herd that can jump through all of those hoops doesn't keep milk records.
I'm very new to owning goats, but I've learned that you can get DNA testing on your goats. Since you don't have a lot of them, the cost should not be too high.
Deborah is more knowledgable on that subject.
I purchased a good quality doe from a reputable breeder who does not work on her milking lines at all. She milks to feed the babies bottles, but after the kids are 2 months, she tries to dry off the doe so she doesn't have the added chore of milking. I purchased a lactating ff from her because I was desperate for goat milk for my daughter. I've been working hard trying to get as much milk from her as possible, and its working. I'm forming the opinion that average or below average milkers can increase their production with extra work, and milking.
As I mentioned, I'm new to goat owning. I'm simply going by my own experience with my doe, and using some of the tricks I learned being a mammal myself and I nursed my children.
Keep us posted! I'm enjoying hearing your updates!
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