Urgent help needed

Hi All,

The vet is perplexed and does not know what to try, and my sweet doe Clover is going downhill fast.  any thoughts or advice would be much appreciated.  Here are the facts.

Doe ~ 4.5 years old in good health.  Kidded with 2 healthy kids last May.

I was out of town on a business trip last week and returned last Saturday night.  So I pick up from there.

Sunday 11/8 clover walking and running but obvious discomfort in back 2 legs.  Buck was with the does today for the first time breading for the season, so we assumed maybe the buck was a bit rough.  Buck was immediately removed form herd.

Wednesday 11/11 Clover very slowly getting worse, unable to jump in to the goat house-on-a-trailer at bed time tonight

Thursday 11/12 Temp 100.9F (normal for her is 101-102).  Vet came out. Heart and lungs OK and strong.  Ruminant stomachs extremely full and bulging, vet was concerned about blockage that might be causing enough discomfort that she has difficulty walking, but Clover pooped during the exam so she ruled that out.  She is eating hay, is alert, and does not seem to be in pain anywhere when you run your hands over her back end.  Vet inspected eyelids, worm load seemed low form that but vey concerned about possible meningeal worm ingestion.  Vet gave first dose of dewormer, Vit B shot and an anti inflammatory.  I kept Clover inside on her own in the stall all day.  Also she is avoiding weighting right front leg, and it is trembling.  This appeared for the first time during the exam. 

Friday 11/13 - today.  Clover all but cannot walk today.  With great effort she can stand, and tries to hobble one or two steps and then collapses.  Called vet.  Vet thinks probably meningeal worm because it is progressing fast but not all the symptoms seem to fit.  Other possibilities: Selenium deficiency (I have Se granules out for them but they never touch it, last time they had BoSe shot was 2 years ago), injured spine causing neurological damage.....vet is at a loss and guessing.  Meningeal worm is best guess.  I will give her another Vit B shot and deworm again today.  Vet suggested I pick up anti inflammatory and give that to her.

She is alert, sweet as always.  She just can't walk and is getting weaker.  Does anyone have any ideas, thoughts, suggestions on what could be going on with my little girl or what I might do?

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Replies

  • It's good that you caught it early with her. She has a much better chance of recovery. Good luck!

  • One of my other does started showing signs of it tonight.  She is slightly stiff in her back end, and as she was running towards the house I saw her back end collapse briefly down, then she recovered.  I immediately got the meds and syringes out.  This is terrible.  It is early stages for this doe, Cinnamon.  Hopefully we have caught it in time.


    Deborah Niemann-Boehle said:

    That's the crazy and sad thing about paralyzed goats. They are usually in great spirits and have a great appetite.

  • That's the crazy and sad thing about paralyzed goats. They are usually in great spirits and have a great appetite.

  • She seems to have stabilized, I am hoping we have turned the corner.  Today is is at least no worse than yesterday, I am cautiously thinking she is a little better.  Her spirits are great, she is alert as ever, her appetite is excellent, she is eating salts and minerals.  But she has no use or control of her back legs, they seems to be totally paralyzed right now.  Her front legs are OK.  She can scootch around a bit.  Today we put a towel under her belly and lifted her up so that she could walk around a bit to exercise her front legs, her back legs just drag along the ground lifelessly.  Her front wheel drive is great, each time we did this she made a beeline for the apple tree and the smorgasbord of fallen apples.  We had to work hard to steer her away.  I am giving her Safeguard, Penecillin, Meloxicam and a vitamin B complex.  I guess we are in wait and see mode.

    Deborah Niemann-Boehle said:

    Someone just alerted me to this article published by Cornell University:

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/289637806/Tis-the-Season-for-Deer-Worm

    It uses 25 mg/kg dosage of the Safeguard, which is 5X the labeled dosage. They're also saying that the ivermectin might be redundant and that the Safeguard is all that's needed. I'm amazed at the survival rate they had in that study. According to the vets at U of I, it's usually only about 20%.

    How is your girl doing today?

  • Someone just alerted me to this article published by Cornell University:

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/289637806/Tis-the-Season-for-Deer-Worm

    It uses 25 mg/kg dosage of the Safeguard, which is 5X the labeled dosage. They're also saying that the ivermectin might be redundant and that the Safeguard is all that's needed. I'm amazed at the survival rate they had in that study. According to the vets at U of I, it's usually only about 20%.

    How is your girl doing today?

  • I didn't mention the dosages in that post because it is WAY off-label. According to this article and the vet, the dosage for treating m-worm is 10X the labeled dosage.

    A word of caution -- when you treat m-worm, the treatment may kill the animal because of the die-off. This is how our llama wound up costing us more than $1,000 overnight. When the treatment took effect, she crashed, and they went to extraordinary means to save her -- only to have us eventually put her down six months later because she still could not stand on her own. This is apparently not uncommon. We've had 8 animals here with m-worm (4 goats and 4 llamas), and each one had a different set of symptoms and progression of the disease. After having a $2,000 vet bill from the first llama and two goats, and ultimately winding up with only one live animal in the long run, I said I'd never again take an animal to the vet for treatment, so I treated the others at home. All died, although some died quicker than others. 

  • Also, why do you do both fenbendazole and ivermectin? Do they function via different mechanisms?

    Judy H said:

    Thanks Deborah.  Reading your post was most helpful, yes it does sound like it is m-worm.  In your post you say to treat with both fenbendazole and ivermectin for 5 days.  I have given 2 days of Safeguard so far, which has fenbendazole in it.   I'll pick up some ivemectin tomorrow and start that.  Do you have any dosage recommendation?  She weighs about 55pounds.  Is it worth trying a BoSe shot also?  It's heartbreaking to see her struggling.

  • I had a dog that followed that exact progression and it turned out to be a spinal injury. Same thing; rear legs first, then front legs, then unable to stand. I really hope this isn't the case for Clover. I'll be hoping for a much better outcome.

  • Thanks Deborah.  Reading your post was most helpful, yes it does sound like it is m-worm.  In your post you say to treat with both fenbendazole and ivermectin for 5 days.  I have given 2 days of Safeguard so far, which has fenbendazole in it.   I'll pick up some ivemectin tomorrow and start that.  Do you have any dosage recommendation?  She weighs about 55pounds.  Is it worth trying a BoSe shot also?  It's heartbreaking to see her struggling.

  • This is the time of year that we see M-worm infection, and her symptoms sound spot on. It will vary from one animal to another based upon where the worm(s) winds up in the spinal column. Treatment is a lot more than "a dose" of dewormer because the worm is in the spinal column and/or brain stem. If treatment is not started the minute you see symptoms, the chances for a full recovery are minimal. We learned the hard way that survival and recovery are two very different things. Here is a post I wrote about m-worm:

    http://www.homegrownandhandmadethebook.com/2013/12/m-worm-nightmare...

    If it were a selenium deficiency, a shot of BoSe should cause her to bounce right back. We've had several cases of m-worm, and we mistook the first one as selenium deficiency and/or a spinal column injury.

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