Your Welcome! I know that SweetLix says to use their minerals within 1 year of the manufacture date. Im not sure what the others recommend but I would not go beyond this recommendation. Of course, keeping them in an optimal storage situation will help them to last :) I keep mine in a weatherproof storage container inside the barns.
Thank you so much for your very informative help and a place to go for it!! It seems we have had so much happen with the sheep and now goats lately, it makes me a little panicky. The goats are wethers, I'll put them on the Kalmbach minerals. Since we only have two and they last a long time, do you have any suggestions how often we should replace them with a new bag for potency? Thank you again Deborah and Tammy! I really appreciate the help!
Kim
I am with Tammy on the Premier 1 minerals. I don't use them because they are very complicated. They're probably good because the owner raises meat goats, but they are just so different than anything else on the market. The mineral levels are crazy high, but it's because the salt winds up being 95%, so the goats should consume very little. And once someone adds sulfur to a goat mineral, my eyes start to glaze over because that's a copper antagonist. My goats are already getting way too much sulfur in my well water, which is why I have a copper challenge to begin with.
I'm sorry I forgot if these are bucks or wethers we are talking about. If they are wethers, I wouldn't worry too much about the levels in the Kalmbach, but if they are bucks, the copper and selenium are a little low.
In a recent email communication with Dr. VanSaun at Penn State, he said that there is no research to really back up the idea that chelated minerals are that much better absorbed. And if the Kalmbach label says they are expected to consume 1/2 to 1.5 ounces per day, that's way more than the Sweetlix, which is only 1/4 to 1/2 ounce per day, so obviously they are not really expecting the goats to consume less of it.
Hi, Tammy.
I tried to find Purina goat minerals around here. No one carries it close to me, and Tractor Supply charges a freight charge to deliver it to our store for pickup. So weird. I can get Kalmbach minerals from our feed store. We use their feed and minerals for our sheep with great results. Their goat minerals are very similar to Purina, with the exception of copper, zinc and selenium. Copper is 1,450 - 1850 ppm. Selenium is 26 ppm, some in form of Selenium yeast (which is the better form). Zinc is higher at 7,500 ppm. All are chelated minerals. Consumption rate from 1/2 oz - 1 1/2 oz. Are these high enough in copper? I noticed the Sweetlix has sodium molybdate in it, so I wonder if this effects the copper absorption?
I love the idea of the 50 water/50 molasses mix. Might use that if they start not eating pellets again. They did love grain with molasses.
I will defer to Deborah on these Premier1 minerals. Personally they are not one that I would choose. I feel like that copper is extremely high, although they have also added quite a bit of zinc, so that may be offering some reduced availability. ( I also just noticed in the gauranteed analysis that they have added sulfur, so that too will decrease the availability) Honestly, this mix is just too complicated with all of the add this or add that then watch for proper intake and adjust if necessary- it's just easier to go with a complete goat mineral IMO - LOL!!! That was a good dose of COWP, so I would hold off on giving another bolus for now.
Even though your boys have had some issues, it is still important that they do get some calcium and phos in their diet so I would go with Purina Goat Minerals. Calcium and Phos are properly balanced (2:1) and it has a higher copper and selenium than the Manna Pro. I go back and forth between SweetLix Meatmaker and Purina, depending on what is available at the time.
Hopefully now that they are off grain, you won't have to worry so much about stone formation. Remember that proper hydration plays a major role in preventing stones as well as urine pH. Adding AC as a sprinkle over their pellets a couple times a week may help you rest better at night =)
We are actually experimenting with ways to make prescribed ZinPro powder more palatable for our goats since we have such a bad zinc deficiency here on the farm. What we have found to work best is 50/50 water and mollasses mixed in a spray bottle, then spritzed lightly over pellets before dusting the ZinPro over top. It holds the powder on the pellets and the goats (and very picky llama) are gobbling it up!
Hi, Tammy. We gave Copasure 4 g. He is about 90 lbs. Also, they are still eating better after the Probios for 4 days. Thinking of switching their minerals to MannaPro brand for the probiotics and ammonium chloride. The main reason we had them on the Premier1 is for the lower calcium and no phosphorus. This was because of the one slightly blocking with crystals when they were on grain. Or would it be better to leave them on the Premier1?
Hi, Deborah. Thank you so much for the information! I agree, looking at those pictures, he doesn't look copper faded. He must just be the incredible color changing goat! If anyone is going to have weird goats, it's going to be us! This is an outside picture of him yesterday. He has the whitish that he didn't have in October picture, but the red is scattered through it, so not really fading I guess?
That does not look like copper-deficiency fading. That looks like a goat that just can't decide what color to be. :) Earlier, he looks like a light chocolate, and then later he looks red, which doesn't make sense. I really would not have thought the goat in the first picture was the same goat in the later pictures. Usually they stay within one color family, and brown and red are different genes. The color difference in the last photo might just be because he is indoors, which is different lighting than sunlight.
In the earlier photos, his dorsal stripe is just shrinking, which happens with some NDs. It's not turning a rusty red color. If I just looked at any of these photos as a stand-alone photo, I would not think there were any problems with the red goat. Usually a goat that's copper deficient is very obvious like these ...
Goat A should be solid velvet black. Goat B should be solid red, plus she has no hair on the bridge of her nose, and she has not shed her winter coat, and it's the end of May. Goat C has so little hair on his tail, he doesn't even have enough to have a fish tail. (See the little wispy thing at the end? That's all he had left beyond the tip."
I'm interested to see what Deborah has to add, but he does look quite faded in this last photo. Especially sinc you have the one where he is darker at 17 months. His coat does look nice and thick and it doesn't appear that there is thinning around the eyes or bridge of nose.
If you decide not to bolus again it will be interesting to see how easily he sheds his cashmere as it starts to warm. What size bolus did you give in November and what is his weight?
Replies
Thanks again!
Kim
Your Welcome!
I know that SweetLix says to use their minerals within 1 year of the manufacture date.
Im not sure what the others recommend but I would not go beyond this recommendation.
Of course, keeping them in an optimal storage situation will help them to last :) I keep mine in a weatherproof storage container inside the barns.
tammy
Kim
I am with Tammy on the Premier 1 minerals. I don't use them because they are very complicated. They're probably good because the owner raises meat goats, but they are just so different than anything else on the market. The mineral levels are crazy high, but it's because the salt winds up being 95%, so the goats should consume very little. And once someone adds sulfur to a goat mineral, my eyes start to glaze over because that's a copper antagonist. My goats are already getting way too much sulfur in my well water, which is why I have a copper challenge to begin with.
I'm sorry I forgot if these are bucks or wethers we are talking about. If they are wethers, I wouldn't worry too much about the levels in the Kalmbach, but if they are bucks, the copper and selenium are a little low.
In a recent email communication with Dr. VanSaun at Penn State, he said that there is no research to really back up the idea that chelated minerals are that much better absorbed. And if the Kalmbach label says they are expected to consume 1/2 to 1.5 ounces per day, that's way more than the Sweetlix, which is only 1/4 to 1/2 ounce per day, so obviously they are not really expecting the goats to consume less of it.
I tried to find Purina goat minerals around here. No one carries it close to me, and Tractor Supply charges a freight charge to deliver it to our store for pickup. So weird. I can get Kalmbach minerals from our feed store. We use their feed and minerals for our sheep with great results. Their goat minerals are very similar to Purina, with the exception of copper, zinc and selenium. Copper is 1,450 - 1850 ppm. Selenium is 26 ppm, some in form of Selenium yeast (which is the better form). Zinc is higher at 7,500 ppm. All are chelated minerals. Consumption rate from 1/2 oz - 1 1/2 oz. Are these high enough in copper? I noticed the Sweetlix has sodium molybdate in it, so I wonder if this effects the copper absorption?
I love the idea of the 50 water/50 molasses mix. Might use that if they start not eating pellets again. They did love grain with molasses.
I will defer to Deborah on these Premier1 minerals. Personally they are not one that I would choose. I feel like that copper is extremely high, although they have also added quite a bit of zinc, so that may be offering some reduced availability. ( I also just noticed in the gauranteed analysis that they have added sulfur, so that too will decrease the availability) Honestly, this mix is just too complicated with all of the add this or add that then watch for proper intake and adjust if necessary- it's just easier to go with a complete goat mineral IMO - LOL!!! That was a good dose of COWP, so I would hold off on giving another bolus for now.
Even though your boys have had some issues, it is still important that they do get some calcium and phos in their diet so I would go with Purina Goat Minerals. Calcium and Phos are properly balanced (2:1) and it has a higher copper and selenium than the Manna Pro. I go back and forth between SweetLix Meatmaker and Purina, depending on what is available at the time.
Hopefully now that they are off grain, you won't have to worry so much about stone formation. Remember that proper hydration plays a major role in preventing stones as well as urine pH. Adding AC as a sprinkle over their pellets a couple times a week may help you rest better at night =)
We are actually experimenting with ways to make prescribed ZinPro powder more palatable for our goats since we have such a bad zinc deficiency here on the farm. What we have found to work best is 50/50 water and mollasses mixed in a spray bottle, then spritzed lightly over pellets before dusting the ZinPro over top. It holds the powder on the pellets and the goats (and very picky llama) are gobbling it up!
Hi, Tammy. We gave Copasure 4 g. He is about 90 lbs. Also, they are still eating better after the Probios for 4 days. Thinking of switching their minerals to MannaPro brand for the probiotics and ammonium chloride. The main reason we had them on the Premier1 is for the lower calcium and no phosphorus. This was because of the one slightly blocking with crystals when they were on grain. Or would it be better to leave them on the Premier1?
Hi, Deborah. Thank you so much for the information! I agree, looking at those pictures, he doesn't look copper faded. He must just be the incredible color changing goat! If anyone is going to have weird goats, it's going to be us! This is an outside picture of him yesterday. He has the whitish that he didn't have in October picture, but the red is scattered through it, so not really fading I guess?
20220308_180719%20%281%29.jpg
That does not look like copper-deficiency fading. That looks like a goat that just can't decide what color to be. :) Earlier, he looks like a light chocolate, and then later he looks red, which doesn't make sense. I really would not have thought the goat in the first picture was the same goat in the later pictures. Usually they stay within one color family, and brown and red are different genes. The color difference in the last photo might just be because he is indoors, which is different lighting than sunlight.
In the earlier photos, his dorsal stripe is just shrinking, which happens with some NDs. It's not turning a rusty red color. If I just looked at any of these photos as a stand-alone photo, I would not think there were any problems with the red goat. Usually a goat that's copper deficient is very obvious like these ...
Goat A should be solid velvet black. Goat B should be solid red, plus she has no hair on the bridge of her nose, and she has not shed her winter coat, and it's the end of May. Goat C has so little hair on his tail, he doesn't even have enough to have a fish tail. (See the little wispy thing at the end? That's all he had left beyond the tip."
Hey Kim
I'm interested to see what Deborah has to add, but he does look quite faded in this last photo. Especially sinc you have the one where he is darker at 17 months. His coat does look nice and thick and it doesn't appear that there is thinning around the eyes or bridge of nose.
If you decide not to bolus again it will be interesting to see how easily he sheds his cashmere as it starts to warm. What size bolus did you give in November and what is his weight?
tammy
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