Hello, Can anyone help me with this? We normally give a selenium vaccination to does 4 weeks before kidding, 1/2 cc. and then to kids at birth, 1/4 cc. This time, we'd like to try a Selenium gel, however, I want to make sure of the dosage amount. I have added pictures of each product and their recommended dosage amounts and guaranteed analysis of product. I'm a bit confused, because of the cc amount with the vaccine as opposed to the ml amount with the gel. Also, is there a reason why maybe we should not use the Selenium Gel? Thank you, anyone who can help!
You need to be a member of Nigerian Dwarf Dairy Goats to add comments!
Replies
The 1 cc I mentioned was for the BoSe, and that was a typo. Should have been 0.1 cc, so you really need an insulin syringe to do that. I'm going to edit that so no one sees it in the future and uses the wrong dose. Yikes!
Since you were dosing pretty heavily in the past with injectable and having no ill effects, it might be a good idea to give your does the gel 2-4 weeks before they're due to kid, using the dosage on the tube.
As for kids -- You can give somewhere between 1-2 ml, depending upon how tiny the kid is. Give less if it's a little 2 pounder and more if it's a big 4 pounder or more, if needed.
Hmm...that may be. Thank you for the reassurance about the selenium gel, but just to confirm- if a kid were to need it should I use the dosage on the tube (2ml) for newborn, or the 1cc that you mentioned earlier? And- do you think if the does all appear to be very well in all aspects, don't give them any prior to kidding? Thank you very much, Deborah. your advice is much appreciated. :)
BoSe and MuSe are the names, so sounds like you have something entirely different up there -- Dystosel, which I have not heard of before. I looked it up, and looks like it's only available in Canada. The amount of selenium is between BoSe and MuSe, so maybe they only make one up there and try to split the difference between the goat and cow selenium that we have in the US.
Are you worried about overdosing with the gel? Years ago I used that selenium gel, and we never had any problems, and I've never heard of anyone ODing with a gel, so I think it's fine.
I'm really confused now- I just read the label again for the gel, and it says in the analysis Natural Selenium max...23.2 mcg (1ppm). Dosage...Newborn 2ml / Adult 4ml. Math and science are not my best, so I'm really unsure. Is there another brand of selenium gel which might be better for us to get? it would have to be ordered from the US, as we are very limited to goat supplies here. Thank you!
Thank you, Deborah. I honestly don't know if the selenium is BoSe or MuSe, and truthfully, I'm not sure how I would know. I don't know what the difference is. The injectible is the selenium we got from our vet, is called Dystosel, and labeled for cattle and sheep, and yes, you are correct, it does not specify for goats. I was aware of the fine line and danger of overdosing, but I didn't know about the BoSe/MuSe and there being different dosages. Thank you very much for pointing this out to me! I think we will not give any to the does prior to kidding, and only to a kid if we see a visible need to. Sound good? Is there a visible way to tell if the does are selenium deficient? The gel we got is by "Kaeco" and is called Selenium and Vitamin E Gel for Goats. I wonder if this is ok to use, and if so, the dosage on the label is probably for standard sized goats, so would the dosage for a newborn Nigerian be the 1cc as you mentioned above, if it were needed? Thank you again, Deborah. You may well have just saved some goat lives. Very scary!
A cc = a ml, but you can't really compare the two because the gel has selenium from yeast, but the injectable has selenium selenite. I used to run the numbers in the past before I noticed that, and the gel seemed really low, but since they're different forms, they're utilized by the body differently. I know people use both and have not heard any complaints about the gel.
I noticed that the injectable that you have is not BoSe. It is labeled for cattle. Is it MuSe? I thought MuSe was 5 mg per ml, so this is a little less potent at 3 mg per ml. People have accidentally overdosed goats with cattle selenium, so it is not recommended, especially for kids because you can't get a low enough dose. BoSe, which is 1 mg per ml is usually given to kids at 0.1 cc for NDs or 0.2 cc for standard size at birth. I'm surprised you haven't lost any kids to toxicity with the dose you're using of that selenium because it's about 3-6 times as much as they'd need. A vet professor told me that a student accidentally gave a dose of MuSe to several goats at the BoSe dosage, and they died, so the margin of error is less than 5 x.
Research has shown that goats pee out 50% of the selenium that is injected, even at the correct dose, and what kills them if they get too much is that the kidneys and liver are damaged trying to filter and excrete all of the excess. From this perspective, the gel is much safer.
Also, keep in mind that if your does are not selenium deficient, then they won't be giving birth to selenium deficient kids. I know a lot of people inject does and kids both, but I really think it's redundant, and the risks outweigh the benefit. Many years ago, I was supposed to buy a buckling from someone, and even though he and his siblings were all born healthy and bouncy, two of the three died shortly after receiving selenium injections. When I discussed this with my vet back then, she said that it's easy enough to give kids selenium if they do have a problem, as the symptoms are quite obvious, so she didn't recommend routine use at birth. Unfortunately, in recent years I've noticed a lot of people immediately think that a weak or sleepy kid is selenium deficient, and usually it's hypothermia. Once they're warmed up and get colostrum, they're fine. Kids that are less than 2.5 pounds get chilled at birth crazy fast when temps are below 40.