noble goat feed

I was feeding noble goat 16 grower to all the goats,  because it had ammonium chloride in it for the male.  I went to tractor supply and saw they had noble goat and the ingredients had ammonium chloride.  Then I saw MEDICATED.  I asked the girl what is the difference, she told me that medicated meant the ammonium chloride.  I knew that was wrong but I was focused on other things and didn't say anything and went ahead and bought it. 

The questions are, can I just give it to them with out slowly switching (wouldn't think so as it's pretty much the same stuff)

The medicated is safe right, (they wouldn't sell it if it wasn't?)


Thanks

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  • Yeah, I'm just starting and the baby I have when she gets to be about a year, my friend in the mountains said I can bring her up and breed with her buck and I told her I'll split the babies.  She is going to give me a doe, when she's done having her babies.  She said I can bring her back up and breed her and keep the babies.  I plan on milking as well.  I had my first experience bottle feeding her baby up there.   My gosh, human babies don't guzzle a bottle in under 30 seconds LOL.  She was so cute..

  • I think there's definitely truth to the idea that some instances of UT issues can be genetic. As far as vets agreeing... I think there are too many out there that have opinions, that don't even really know anything ABOUT goats! A lot of them think that goats are similar to sheep or cows, but they are very different in their needs.

    Deb has some good information about UT issues. Seeing as there isn't a nutritional need for wethers or bucks to be on grain, I figure there's no reason to feed it. Just more for me to buy, and my bucks look great on straight hay and browse.

    I personally have found that a lot of the people that "just feed" __________ and __________ and they are "fine" aren't raising goats with the same purpose that I am. Feed, mineral intake, etc. All directly impact milk production, and fertility. Yes, feeding CAN be done a certain way, but when you're raising for milk and breeding, what you feed, and how you manage your herd will impact your bottom line more than if you're "just" raising for brushing or pets. Also, I think that there's a lot of difference in how different breeds need to be managed. There are things a Boar breeder doesn't have to consider that someone raising a milking breed herd does. So you have to take that into consideration also. There's probably a lot that "we" here do that you don't really need to, because you aren't raising to breed or produce milk. Lots of factors go into each herd's management, and even within the same area, practices can be different... It's mind boggling. I remember my head nearly exploding trying to figure out what information applied to me, and what didn't.

  • Agreed...

    The old timers, here in the desert, that I have spoken with.... as well as my tenant who has raised goats for 5 years in Kansas, said he's never had or heard of the issues I've spoken about on goats.  My neighbor in the mountains raises nigerians, she said she just throws them feed/alfalfa and gives them feed and they are just fine..  

    Speaking of resistance, I know that people keep using hand sanitizer and sanitizers in their kitchen and the "bacteria" changes genetics and becomes resistant.  Plain soap and water gets rid of bacteria...we are creating the super bugs..

  • True, however, it's pretty accepted that giving antibiotics and treating "bugs" when it's not necessary can cause resistance in viruses and parasites, etc... so I feel like that's less opinion, and more fact... but...

    Feeding medicated feed as a preventative is "old school" and more is understood about how things work. You'll still get old school methods of herd management as advice from people "in the know" but that's just because they aren't keeping up to date with new management practices and information. It doesn't necessarily mean they are giving you good advice... that's why it's important to understand how things work

    Trish said:

    I guess everyone has their opinion. Some website are good some for just opinions as well.   I  am learning more from the 4H/livestock person at the University that is trained for this...as well as absorbing info on forums for later assimilation.

  • That's a possibility that the goat just had a congenital defect....  More vets disagree with that statement tho.  Because of the factual history of the AC in prevention the stats show marked decrease.....captive goats.  I wonder what goats did in the wild before human intervention.  I think that goats are smarter than we give them credit for in their choices of food in the wild. When humans control them and they don't have a choice, problems arise. IMHO

    Just today, it's raining...not expected.  My goats are out browsing and eating their wet hay from the trough.  No they don't like rain but they can and will tolerate it. go figure.

    If you go by the forums as gospel, they will say goats hate being wet.  Why then, on animal planet, did I just see goats swimming in the lake?  hmmmmmthat got me thinking...


    Rachel Whetzel said:

    At the time, I didn't know what questions to ask, and it wasn't my conversation, it was discussion between the owners and the vet, and the class was just listening in... so I don't know those details, or remember if they were discussed. I do know they were on grain, but not which kind. One of them, I do remember stated she fed Ammonium Chloride but still had a buck fall ill. The vet, in speaking to those people, said that he found that because of the design of male goat's urniary system (it curves back on itself) that his thoughts were that what causes issues has more to do with poor urinary structure rather than castrated vs. not.

    Trish said:

    Right, because of too much phosphorus/grain for the male.  Bucks can get it w/o the Ammonium Chloride and or Apple cider vinegar.  The wethers, castrated later no so much, but wethers castrated younger, possible.

    You didn't mention how old the bucks were and the feed they were given?

  • At the time, I didn't know what questions to ask, and it wasn't my conversation, it was discussion between the owners and the vet, and the class was just listening in... so I don't know those details, or remember if they were discussed. I do know they were on grain, but not which kind. One of them, I do remember stated she fed Ammonium Chloride but still had a buck fall ill. The vet, in speaking to those people, said that he found that because of the design of male goat's urniary system (it curves back on itself) that his thoughts were that what causes issues has more to do with poor urinary structure rather than castrated vs. not.

    Trish said:

    Right, because of too much phosphorus/grain for the male.  Bucks can get it w/o the Ammonium Chloride and or Apple cider vinegar.  The wethers, castrated later no so much, but wethers castrated younger, possible.

    You didn't mention how old the bucks were and the feed they were given?

  • Ahhhh  I meant noble goat medicated, not purina goat chow...  duhhhhhhhhhh.

    Trish said:

    I have been told that feeding medicated PREVENTS Coccidiosis for babies... ??  Which brings me to the question....on the Purina Goat Chow that is medicated...does it say MEDICATED on the front of the 50 lbs bag?  I could have sworn I saw it on the bag at tractor supply when I got it and I took the tag off which confirmed it was medicated...but when I went to look at it again, there is no MEDICATED listed on the bag itself....  anyone know about this?

    Deborah Painchaud said:

    thanks Rachel...great advice...

    Rachel Whetzel said:

    Deborah,

    Unless your goat HAS Coccidiosis, you really don't need to be feeding medicated chow. In fact, feeding medicated chow to goats that aren't sick can make the medication useless if you ever DO need it, because the parasites that cause Coccidiosis can build up a resistance to the medication.

    Deborah Painchaud said:

    This is interesting cause I am feeding Piper a mix of noble goat (medicated) and some grains I mix my self..(sunflower seeds with shell, wheat berries, and buckwheat groats) and I couldn't get a straight answer about switching her when she freshens...I think I will anyway cause I am not sure I want medicated goat grain as a basis for my milk...any thoughts?

  • I guess everyone has their opinion. Some website are good some for just opinions as well.   I  am learning more from the 4H/livestock person at the University that is trained for this...as well as absorbing info on forums for later assimilation.

  • Except that, Coccidiosis is a parasite. Here's some information about it: http://www.sweetlix.com/media/documents/articles/Goat_005.pdf

    Basically, "preventions" like medicated feed are band-aides covering up poor herd management (especially in larger herds)

    Prevention can also come from elimination of poor living conditions, etc. Even Sweetlix site says "Care should be taken to use coccidiostats properly. Indiscriminant use of coccidiostats can result in populations
    of coccidia that develop resistance to the given coccidiostat."

    Trish said:

    I have been told that feeding medicated PREVENTS Coccidiosis for babies... ??  Which brings me to the question....on the Purina Goat Chow that is medicated...does it say MEDICATED on the front of the 50 lbs bag?  I could have sworn I saw it on the bag at tractor supply when I got it and I took the tag off which confirmed it was medicated...but when I went to look at it again, there is no MEDICATED listed on the bag itself....  anyone know about this?

    Deborah Painchaud said:

    thanks Rachel...great advice...

    Rachel Whetzel said:

    Deborah,

    Unless your goat HAS Coccidiosis, you really don't need to be feeding medicated chow. In fact, feeding medicated chow to goats that aren't sick can make the medication useless if you ever DO need it, because the parasites that cause Coccidiosis can build up a resistance to the medication.

    Deborah Painchaud said:

    This is interesting cause I am feeding Piper a mix of noble goat (medicated) and some grains I mix my self..(sunflower seeds with shell, wheat berries, and buckwheat groats) and I couldn't get a straight answer about switching her when she freshens...I think I will anyway cause I am not sure I want medicated goat grain as a basis for my milk...any thoughts?

  • Right, because of too much phosphorus/grain for the male.  Bucks can get it w/o the Ammonium Chloride and or Apple cider vinegar.  The wethers, castrated later no so much, but wethers castrated younger, possible.

    You didn't mention how old the bucks were and the feed they were given?

    Rachel Whetzel said:

    In the class I took, there were two people there, who had bucks that had gotten it, and one of them had a buck die from it.

    Trish said:

    Right Rachel, but what I've found by research, it's when the wethers are castrated young before the urinary and testes are fully developed, is where the UC can present itself.  When the bucks are older, like 6 months +, and the plumbing is already developed, then castrated,  the chances are quite minimal that they will get the stones.

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