Nigerian Dwarf Dairy Goats

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I've just been browsing the Fiasco Farms site, after reading way too much complicated literature on goat worms.  I think I'm going to take the plunge and give the Molly's herbal dewormer regimen a shot.  Anybody tried it?  Anybody know a reason not to try it?
Thanks!

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I am actually in the middle of my own little controlled study with it. I started using it last fall and thought it was working pretty well until I had a buck die from anemia caused by a severe case of haemonchus contortus (a.k.a. barberpole worms). As my does kid now, I am giving them either Molly's or DE and following up with fecals to see how they're working. I do my own fecals, so I can check every single goat multiple times. I don't know if it's still there, but the Fiasco Farm site used to have instructions for doing your own fecals, so I am wondering why Molly has never done this and provided the results on her website.

And speaking of herbal dewormers, the Hoegger dewormer shows you the results of a study that someone did with their dewormer, but the worm that's missing is HC, which is probably the worst one out there today. I used Hoegger's dewormer but didn't think it worked very well once a goat had a serious load of parasites, primarily HC.

I'll be sharing the results of my little research, which will be ongoing, because I really think we need to get away from the chemicals and find natural alternatives.
Thanks Deborah. Really looking forward to hearing your results, though sorry to hear about your buck.
I've also been wondering if using a chemical dewormer and then following up with consistent doses of herbal might be a safer way to go. Many of the herbal reviews I've read have seemed to imply just what you're saying, that once the worm load is too big they aren't very effective. But maybe they could keep the worms down after a chemical treatment.
...Sigh...kind of a frustrating topic at the moment.

Deborah Niemann-Boehle said:
I am actually in the middle of my own little controlled study with it. I started using it last fall and thought it was working pretty well until I had a buck die from anemia caused by a severe case of haemonchus contortus (a.k.a. barberpole worms). As my does kid now, I am giving them either Molly's or DE and following up with fecals to see how they're working. I do my own fecals, so I can check every single goat multiple times. I don't know if it's still there, but the Fiasco Farm site used to have instructions for doing your own fecals, so I am wondering why Molly has never done this and provided the results on her website.

And speaking of herbal dewormers, the Hoegger dewormer shows you the results of a study that someone did with their dewormer, but the worm that's missing is HC, which is probably the worst one out there today. I used Hoegger's dewormer but didn't think it worked very well once a goat had a serious load of parasites, primarily HC.

I'll be sharing the results of my little research, which will be ongoing, because I really think we need to get away from the chemicals and find natural alternatives.
I have been using it for about 3 months on my guys that I was previously using Safeguard on. All are very healthy, vibrant, fat and sassy. Got a new girl 3 weeks ago, not in good shape. 6 years old, bounced around and not well cared for. Had a big worm load. Put her on the herbal for 2 weeks had her tested and worm load was significantly reduced. I like it! No throwing out milk and she is now shedding out nasty washed out coat and new coat is shiny and beautiful strawberry blond instead of bleached blonde if you can get my meaning about the contrast. I think the herbal alternatives are a good way to go!
Was it Molly's or a different one? And were you giving her the wormwood formula for two weeks straight? (She has two different formulas.)
Thanks!

Tracy Fawley said:
I have been using it for about 3 months on my guys that I was previously using Safeguard on. All are very healthy, vibrant, fat and sassy. Got a new girl 3 weeks ago, not in good shape. 6 years old, bounced around and not well cared for. Had a big worm load. Put her on the herbal for 2 weeks had her tested and worm load was significantly reduced. I like it! No throwing out milk and she is now shedding out nasty washed out coat and new coat is shiny and beautiful strawberry blond instead of bleached blonde if you can get my meaning about the contrast. I think the herbal alternatives are a good way to go!
Hi everyone!
I have used Molly Herbal wormer and I liked it a lot. You have to make sure they get the right dosing when they need it and not miss any for it to work. It also seemed to boost there immune system. Which I do believe that if they have a healthy immune system they can fight off worms. It was two summers ago that I used it. I did start making my own dewormer. The reason why I had not continued with it is because I was not good at getting them the dosing on time. I plan to go back to it this Spring again.
The worm Debra was talking about that killed her buck has been terrible this past year and very few wormers are working on it. Numerous people and species have had problems with it this past year. I think it is a sign of more problems to come! I had one buck who also came very close to dieing from it. Through fecals and working with my vets we goat a wormer that killed the worm and he is doing much better. The best thing that I can recommend with any kind of worming program is to do fecals more then once a year and famancha testing of the eyes! You will learn a lot that way about your goats. I can not say if the herbal wormer would have worked with that worm cause I did not try it.

Abby
Oak Hollow Acres
Thanks Abby! My guys are on such a tight schedule that I think the regularity issue will work out well for us.
You make an excellent point about deworming for the worm, too.
I think the famancha test is incredibly helpful as an overview and with only a handful of goats running around I plan on doing it often. I'm totally in the market for a microscope now too, you girls have me convinced!

Abigail Lippmann said:
Hi everyone!
I have used Molly Herbal wormer and I liked it a lot. You have to make sure they get the right dosing when they need it and not miss any for it to work. It also seemed to boost there immune system. Which I do believe that if they have a healthy immune system they can fight off worms. It was two summers ago that I used it. I did start making my own dewormer. The reason why I had not continued with it is because I was not good at getting them the dosing on time. I plan to go back to it this Spring again.
The worm Debra was talking about that killed her buck has been terrible this past year and very few wormers are working on it. Numerous people and species have had problems with it this past year. I think it is a sign of more problems to come! I had one buck who also came very close to dieing from it. Through fecals and working with my vets we goat a wormer that killed the worm and he is doing much better. The best thing that I can recommend with any kind of worming program is to do fecals more then once a year and famancha testing of the eyes! You will learn a lot that way about your goats. I can not say if the herbal wormer would have worked with that worm cause I did not try it.

Abby
Oak Hollow Acres
Deborah, please tell me how you administer the DE. I have just ordered Molly's dewormer for my goats but I'm really curious about the DE (partly because I have a 50-lb bag of it I use in the chicken coop).

Thanks,
Gerilee

Deborah Niemann-Boehle said:
I am actually in the middle of my own little controlled study with it. I started using it last fall and thought it was working pretty well until I had a buck die from anemia caused by a severe case of haemonchus contortus (a.k.a. barberpole worms). As my does kid now, I am giving them either Molly's or DE and following up with fecals to see how they're working. I do my own fecals, so I can check every single goat multiple times. I don't know if it's still there, but the Fiasco Farm site used to have instructions for doing your own fecals, so I am wondering why Molly has never done this and provided the results on her website.

And speaking of herbal dewormers, the Hoegger dewormer shows you the results of a study that someone did with their dewormer, but the worm that's missing is HC, which is probably the worst one out there today. I used Hoegger's dewormer but didn't think it worked very well once a goat had a serious load of parasites, primarily HC.

I'll be sharing the results of my little research, which will be ongoing, because I really think we need to get away from the chemicals and find natural alternatives.
In September, I tried it on one doe after she kidded, and I'd put a 1/4 cup on her feed twice a day. That totally coats it and makes it look white. She seemed to be doing great until about six weeks after she kidded, and then she started pooping logs instead of berries. I was not doing fecals at the time, but I will this spring, so I will know what's really going on. There is *something* in the DE that some goats really love though. I was using it with a buck, and he'd lick the pan clean. I had two bucks that had serious worm problems last fall, and the Molly's and DE didn't work for either of them. I then used Cydectin, but it was too late for the one buck. He was already too anemic and couldn't bounce back. DE is one of those things (like apple cider vinegar) that just has a lot of good "stuff" in it, trace minerals, etc, that's good for animals, so I'll continue using it. The only question I have is how much I can rely on it to help with parasites. People who say that it's good for parasites emphasize that you have to use a lot, because it's not a poison. It kills the parasites on physical contact.

Gerilee Hundt said:
Deborah, please tell me how you administer the DE. I have just ordered Molly's dewormer for my goats but I'm really curious about the DE (partly because I have a 50-lb bag of it I use in the chicken coop).

Thanks,
Gerilee

I've used Molly's on the first five goats that have kidded so far, and I'm really disappointed. I gave it to them for three days after kidding, and again for one day a week later, even though she says you only need to do it about every six weeks. A month after kidding, the first three goats are losing weight and have C scores in FAMACHA, so I'm going to do fecals on them tomorrow.

Yesterday, I did a fecal on a goat that kidded two weeks ago, so she just got Molly's last week (single dose) and the week before (three doses) when she kidded. She is pooping soft logs like a dog, instead of normal goat berries. Her FAMACHA score is a D; it was an A before kidding. Her worm load is terribly high -- I counted 20 eggs without even moving the slide, so there were probably 100+ eggs on the slide. Prior to kidding I found three eggs on the whole slide, which is about as good as it gets with goats (or any animal that eats off the ground). I was going to do the three day treatment again and gave her Molly's last night in her feed, but tonight when I tried to give her the herbal dewormer, she pawed the pan with her front hoof and knocked it over. When I got another pan and tried to hold it, she was trying to knock it out of my hand. Guess she's decided she doesn't like it, so she's being removed from my little study.
Bummer! I think I might follow your lead, Marcy, and continue to use the herbs anyway but not rely on them as a wormer. Deborah, I'm glad you brought up checking after kidding. Seems like that would be the real test of the herbs.
What do you ladies recommend, then, from the more conventional wormers? And I assume you only use those when you have to and after kidding? Any other time?
Just found this research and wanted to share it:
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6TD7-...
The scientist who did this research is seriously trying to find an alternative to chemical dewormers. I interviewed her a couple years ago about copper oxide wire particles, which do have some effectiveness against haemonchus contortus. Sadly, the Molly's did nothing to reduce the worm load. She does say in the conclusion, however, that perhaps the dosage needs to be higher. That's tricky though, because wormwood is thought to be toxic at higher levels.

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